WWE Discussion Thread

Which is why its crap, they keep picking irrelevant sportsman. Comeón its WWE, get Tiger Woods or Andy Roddick if you're going to get Guest Hosts...For all Non-American watchers, the last few have sucked, but even still some of the Guest hosts even known ones have pulled up short on delivering.

Skyler Striker wrote:

The Guest Host idea isn't crap - it's actually brilliant. It's finding the right hosts that's the trick.

Couldn't agree with you more Skyler.

Bob Barker was gold
Shaq was decent
Mark cuban was allright

It gets a bit light on after that.

They need to get the right guest hosts if they want to maintain the idea.

That said there was a pretty blatant lead into the Hitman taking over as GM on the "Slammys" show

What? You didn't enjoy it when Seth Green was on?

The guy was born for those funny backstage skits. Him, HHH and Cena worked great together on supposedly live shit.

I thought Jesse Ventura was a solid host. Personally, the more relevant they are to WWE's history, the better they end up turning out to be.

Of course, there are a few exceptions to that, and that is the celebrity WWE fans. You can usually tell that a celebrity is a huge WWE fan if he meshes well with the show (i.e. Shaq, Mark Cuban).

Seth Green was the best guest host. I haven't watched a RAW from start to finish since then.

Eric Scorpio wrote:

What? You didn't enjoy it when Seth Green was on?

The guy was born for those funny backstage skits. Him, HHH and Cena worked great together on supposedly live shit.

I can't really comment as I missed that particular episode... but I can imagine with his sense of humour that it would have been good stuff.

I gotta agree with the Jerishow hate. WWE's Fetish for Tag Teams composed of established singles stars is harming the show more than any attempt TNA could ever concoct. If they'd start developing a stand alone tag division, with teams of fresh faces and chemistry, taking the time to create an attraction that would pay off longer and steadier, they wouldn't need to try and hype these monster teams of singles stars to try and drum up quick heat.

I'm seeing a habit of WWE going back to the olden days of booking, appealing to children much more, and trying to sell PPVs just by the names on the card, without much development in feuding or chemistry between opponents. Personally, I'm not a fan, but it's benefiting the WWE much more than TNA's poor attempts to cling to the Attitude Era style of mixing kayfabe business with drama thick wrestling.

It's beginning to make me think that since wrestling is such a trend influenced form of entertainment, that the entire business is cyclical. Before you know it, we'll have another Attitude Era in about fifteen years.

Oh, and bumping a dead subject, Eddie Guerrero's final match was with Kennedy on November 11th 2005, and he passed away November 13th.

To anyone considering going to a WWE house show...don't. Terrible experience. 90% of the people there could be captured by three categories; drunks, kids, and the retarded (that's not a figure of speech. I mean this literally).

Not that I'm against any of those 3 groups...but it's kind of shitty going to an event you hope will entertain you, only to realize that the target audience is lushes, children, and the mentally impaired. Sitting in that crowd was so annoying. Matt Hardy got the best reaction that night.

Matt.
Hardy.

I've never actually paid money to see a WWE event before tonight, and I never will again.

Well, having read house show reports multiple times I can say your experience is actually a rare one. WWE tend to cut more loosely with their house shows, doing stuff that wouldn't make sense for TV but is fine as a once off such as having John Cena join DX (they often do this at the end of the night to please all the kids) and give away what we would consider MEs like candy.

And by the way, I'm puzzled by you're venom for the audience. 1: Kids are a lifeblood not just for the WWE, just wrestling as a whole. Just watch an episode of RoH on HDnet and you'll actually see plenty of kids at a promotion aimed at adults 2. I'm a drunk (well I drink) at wrestling shows, and? 3. I think those with special needs are entitled to enjoy wrestling just like everyone else thanks

Just because you're town didn't get the A game just as the boys came off a pretty stiff PPV doesn't mean the WWE doesn't deliver on it house shows. They do most of the time. Save your venom.

The Celt wrote:

Well, having read house show reports multiple times I can say your experience is actually a rare one. WWE tend to cut more loosely with their house shows, doing stuff that wouldn't make sense for TV but is fine as a once off such as having John Cena join DX (they often do this at the end of the night to please all the kids) and give away what we would consider MEs like candy.

Not here. Pretty much by the book.

The Celt wrote:

And by the way, I'm puzzled by you're venom for the audience. 1: Kids are a lifeblood not just for the WWE, just wrestling as a whole. Just watch an episode of RoH on HDnet and you'll actually see plenty of kids at a promotion aimed at adults 2. I'm a drunk (well I drink) at wrestling shows, and? 3. I think those with special needs are entitled to enjoy wrestling just like everyone else thanks.

I don't mind the fact that kids were there in general. I mind the fact that a very particular breed of kid was there. And I didn't say handicapped people don't deserve to watch. But when you're literally surrounded by kids in Hardy armlets and the disabled, it really suggests something about your taste in entertainment. If you can enjoy that regardless by drinking, more power to you. Alcohol just made me more pissed off. And the "drunks" I'm talking about are the creepy 50-year olds in sweatsuits.

The Celt wrote:

Just because you're town didn't get the A game just as the boys came off a pretty stiff PPV doesn't mean the WWE doesn't deliver on it house shows. They do most of the time. Save your venom.

The game was about a C+. I think not wanting to attend a wrestling show whose target live audience is primarily really loud weird-looking kids is fair enough.

At least I wasn't at RoH Final Battle. The main event was booed out of the building.

Is it just me or was this week's RAW incredibly lame. Lame matches. (how bad was the in ring work between Swagger/Cena.) and particularly lame segments.

I just did not find the Horsnwaggle / DX segments entertaining in the slightest.

poor effort for mine

So, Teddy Hart may join WWE, what with Bret Hart coming back and all.

Personally, I do NOT want to see Teddy in a WWE ring. I've seen him wrestle in AAA, and it isn't exactly enjoyable. His style doesn't mesh well in WWE, and he has about five moves in his arsenal that others would use as finishers, but he uses regularly. I would really hope the E doesn't sign Teddy.

Personally I think Teddy is fine in the ring. Don't know what to think of him out of the ring but in the ring he'll go out and bust his ass as hard as anyone to overcome his critics. Some people call him out on the fact that many of his moves are too much like finishers...but on the other hands that like sayings "Hey Teddy, too many of your moves are awesome, get some lamer ones".

If he was brought in to the WWE (which I doubt he will be. Just because Bret will be back isn't a ticket in IMO) I think he could actually go with a limited moveset. Thing about Teddy Hart is some of his more basic moves are awesome as well. In my personal opinon he has the best moonsault you'll ever see period.

Teddy Hart is such a controversial figure in wrestling but I think some people forget he's a great wrestler despite his out of ring short comings. Smarks are sort of biased against him because his major bad behaviour happened at ROH, which smarks are naturally loyal to and thus on its side. However he had a bit of a redemption match just his last week at ROH Final Battle 2009. He and Jack Evans where suppose to be in a tag match with fellow AAA boys Rocky Romero and Alex Koslov but like a few others got caught out by the weather. However they got to the show in time before the hour long main event so they were sent out for a six minute match where they seemed to win over the crowd, a crowd who are suppose to hate Teddy mine you.


And yeah Abel the RAW you're referring to was universally panned. Damn fucking writers...had that little people's court episode been on against TNA people would think wrestling is dead.

The Celt wrote:

Personally I think Teddy is fine in the ring. Don't know what to think of him out of the ring but in the ring he'll go out and bust his ass as hard as anyone to overcome his critics. Some people call him out on the fact that many of his moves are too much like finishers...but on the other hands that like sayings "Hey Teddy, too many of your moves are awesome, get some lamer ones".

If he was brought in to the WWE (which I doubt he will be. Just because Bret will be back isn't a ticket in IMO) I think he could actually go with a limited moveset. Thing about Teddy Hart is some of his more basic moves are awesome as well. In my personal opinon he has the best moonsault you'll ever see period.

Teddy Hart is such a controversial figure in wrestling but I think some people forget he's a great wrestler despite his out of ring short comings. Smarks are sort of biased against him because his major bad behaviour happened at ROH, which smarks are naturally loyal to and thus on its side. However he had a bit of a redemption match just his last week at ROH Final Battle 2009. He and Jack Evans where suppose to be in a tag match with fellow AAA boys Rocky Romero and Alex Koslov but like a few others got caught out by the weather. However they got to the show in time before the hour long main event so they were sent out for a six minute match where they seemed to win over the crowd, a crowd who are suppose to hate Teddy mine you.

I agree with all of this.

And frankly, that's the first time I've ever heard of someone bash Teddy based on in-ring ability. He's always been great in that department to me. I also mark for his moonsault.

He might have great moves, but he does them for the sake of doing moves. His ring psychology is horrible. Plus, his style would have to be WAY dumbed down for WWE; I don't see him keeping th Shooting Star Press, what with it being Bourne's finisher, and there's no way he does the piledriver or flipping piledriver. About the only move he'll be able to do is that Powerbomb Backcracker as a finisher (a move that, though I dislike Teddy, I mark out for).

I think he needs to stay in AAA. It'll be better for him, and for the WWE.

S.O.S. wrote:

He might have great moves, but he does them for the sake of doing moves. His ring psychology is horrible. Plus, his style would have to be WAY dumbed down for WWE; I don't see him keeping th Shooting Star Press, what with it being Bourne's finisher, and there's no way he does the piledriver or flipping piledriver. About the only move he'll be able to do is that Powerbomb Backcracker as a finisher (a move that, though I dislike Teddy, I mark out for).

I think he needs to stay in AAA. It'll be better for him, and for the WWE.

Of course he'll be watered down...but isn't everyone who comes from the independent circuit? Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne is watered down. CM Punk is watered down. Samoa Joe in TNA is watered down. His basics are still good enough for him to be entertaining though. And he'll still take flight on occasion, which will be entertaining.

He does moves for the sake of doing moves because the indies encourage him to do so. I mean, Lucha Libre is pretty much all about ludicrous acrobatics. If he wrestles under a different format, he will adapt. Look at his stuff in OVW, for example.

With the coming conflict between WWE and TNA on Mondays, maybe they'll let him use the Open Hart Surgery/Spiral Tap as a finisher?

If he can adapt, as you say he can, he might be good enough for WWE to put on display. I do think the guy's talented, but I personally don't enjoy watching him.

But what of the backstage, off-the-camera hijinks he's known to pull? There's no denying that he's a head-case, and gets under people's skin. If he calms that stuff down, he shold be able to make it in the WWE; if he can't, he'll be gone again. Should the WWE sign a guy who's had behavioral issues in the past not only in the WWE, but in other feds as well?

I believe he could give one or some of his Signature Move(s) a promotion to the rank of "Finisher" in the WWE. Even though he's not a big man, I'd like to see him use the Stu Hart Special (Gory Lock into Sitout Powerbomb) if he's able to pull it off. Also, the Triple Bypass (Shooting Star Leg Drop) might have a chance to make it in there, given that Evan Bourne/Matt Sydal was able to bring the Shooting Star Press back to the WWE after it was banned for so many years following Brock Lesnar's neck-landing SSP against Kurt Angle.

I'd love to see Hart in the WWE for a single reason: I think the more indy wrestlers will go to the WWE, the more their style will pierce through and maybe, just MAYBE, we might see Vince become more open minded when it relates to his wrestlers' moveset. (I know, it's a far-fetched idea, but hey, one can dream.)

You know Teddy is known as this "jerk" backstage, yet he really has to be put in perspective. He's a bad guy in the mind of the smarks because he pissed off Punk because he pulled some unplanned spots which he claims where the result of a concussion; yet on the flip side most smarks seem up for the return of Bret despite in his autobiography he openly admits he was unfaithfully to his wife multiple, multiple times during his days on the road. Also people seem to be nay saying Hulk Hogan even though he's just gone on the record he was recently on the verge of suicide after his divorce, like there's little sympathy for the man. I think the world of smark knowledge is a bit twisted because the only info is what some people choose to let out.

Whatever people want to say, there's a certain X factor or charisma about Teddy that Tyson nor Harry have. He's an over the top sort of character, which might freak some people in real life but on the flip side makes him stand out as a wrestler. He's also a real student of the game...Knowing all those moves means he's spends the time learning and inventing them, as well as the fact he's paid his dues all over the world having done Japan, the UK, and Mexico as well the US and Canada.

If Teddy does get picked up the WWE it might be cool if best friend Jack Evans comes with. Could you imagine the king of flip in WWE? Kids would be going nuts for him i'd say.

EDIT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Zjhf5JuKY&feature=related

There's a tribute video for anyone who hasn't seen Hart in action. His Open Hart Surgery (Corkscrew flipping elbow?) would be allowed in the WWE, and it'd get over.

Where's all the "Teddy to WWE" talk coming from, anyway?

I haven't heard a peep from the dirt-sheets. In fact, I was surprised that Ring of Honor would touch him.

Here it is.

Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Quote :

- Teddy Hart is telling people in Mexico that he is going to be coming in to WWE with Bret Hart. The feeling in Mexico is that if he does go, he won't last long because "he hasn't learned one thing since he's been there (in Mexico)." The feeling is that Teddy has lots of talent but limited ring psychology and never listens to anyone, which is why WWE released him from a deal before.

Teddy wants to bring partner Jack Evans with him. AAA is high on Evans, more than they are on Hart, and Evans has two more years left on his contract with them.

Hart has either been asked by WWE, or already has filmed interviews in Stamford for the upcoming WWE DVD on the Hart family. Teddy is under the impression that the DVD is going along with WrestleMania 26 where the late Stu Hart will be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Teddy was last released by WWE from a developmental deal in late 2007. He is the grandson of Stu Hart, nephew of Bret Hart and cousin to The Hart Dynasty.

Odd.

What scares me waaay more is the sheer volume of sources that say TNA is going to be having an nWo reunion. If that happens, then that place is done as a promotion.

Scott Hall's been posting telltale myspace statuses about it...and apparently Sean Walt-pac has been telling all of his friends in Mexico that it's going to happen.

So, apparently, a while back, one Yoshi Tatsu beat Sheamus's ass when the two were roommates.

Discuss.

S.O.S. wrote:

So, apparently, a while back, one Yoshi Tatsu beat Sheamus's ass when the two were roommates.

Discuss.

There are a lot of unlikely bad-asses in the WWE out of kayfabe.

I remember reading some interview, where a superstar was asked who would they be most afraid of in a real fight, and they said William Regal. Apparently he's tough as shit.

I know I'm a little late to the Teddy Hart party, but the argument for him is so lopsided and selfish that I feel the need to go out of my way to comment on it.

The Celt wrote:

Some people call him out on the fact that many of his moves are too much like finishers...but on the other hands that like sayings "Hey Teddy, too many of your moves are awesome, get some lamer ones".

This only proves what SOS said about Teddy's horrible in-ring psychology. Ring Psychology 101; finishers are theoretically supposed to be the biggest, baddest moves in your moveset, which is supported as well by the selling of your opponent. When like five of your moves are of more or less equal in intensity as your finisher, the move you actually call your finisher loses its luster, unless every opponent it's done to goes out of his way to sell it like a gunshot.

"Lamer" ones serve to make your actual finisher look better. If your moveset is comprised of entirely "awesome" moves, then you're a fucking CAW and that is fucking stupid.

ToastErr wrote:

Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne is watered down. CM Punk is watered down.

Being "watered down" isn't always a bad thing. Evan Bourne and Tyson Kidd proved that you can still be flippy while maintaining psychology. CM Punk is technically watered down but he's still entertaining than most of the roster because his fundamentals are a little different. Teddy is what you call a spot monkey; it might be entertaining to watch in the beginning but when you think about it, it's really mindless.

ToastErr wrote:

He does moves for the sake of doing moves because the indies encourage him to do so.

That doesn't mean it's smart. The indies have little to no psychology at all and that's why Teddy hasn't developed his.

The Celt wrote:

You know Teddy is known as this "jerk" backstage, yet he really has to be put in perspective. He's a bad guy in the mind of the smarks because he pissed off Punk because he pulled some unplanned spots which he claims where the result of a concussion

Do you know what that unplanned spot was? It was a dive from the top of a cage. If the other guys weren't thinking quick, they probably wouldn't have been unable to catch him. Do you know how dangerous is that for all who were involved?

It was a selfish move on his part, and if people actually let that pass, it's only going to encourage him because he thinks it's okay for him to do that kind of shit, it's okay to REALLY endanger himself and his co-workers as long as the fans think it's in the script, eh?

The Celt wrote:

Whatever people want to say, there's a certain X factor or charisma about Teddy that Tyson nor Harry have.

Oh, and Rey Mysterio doesn't? It's nothing new, the two basically have the exact same type of offense, after Teddy gets watered down.

SOS wrote:

Teddy Hart is telling people in Mexico that he is going to be coming in to WWE with Bret Hart. The feeling in Mexico is that if he does go, he won't last long because "he hasn't learned one thing since he's been there (in Mexico)." The feeling is that Teddy has lots of talent but limited ring psychology and never listens to anyone, which is why WWE released him from a deal before.

Now, think about ^ for a second. This is a guy who still has a lot to learn, but he thinks he's above the system and he can do no wrong because his last name is Hart, and he can jump higher and spin faster than anyone.

But why do two of his good friends, TJ Wilson and Harry Smith, one who isn't a Hart and one whose family name isn't as beloved as Hart, already have jobs on the big time and he doesn't? To put it in perspective, he's like House; totally good at what he does but is a huge asshole, but at least House will admit it when he is wrong.

You may like him, but nobody wants to work with a jackass, and nobody's probably going to push a jackass. Your wrestlers are human too.

Ro, For the Fucking Win!

I never said that being watered down was a bad thing, or that the indies being spotty was necessarily a good thing.

Quote :

His basics are still good enough for him to be entertaining though. And he'll still take flight on occasion, which will be entertaining.

Otherwise, yeah.

Butters wrote:

Ro, For the Fucking Win!

^This.

Romeo wrote:

I know I'm a little late to the Teddy Hart party, but the argument for him is so lopsided and selfish that I feel the need to go out of my way to comment on it.

The Celt wrote:

Some people call him out on the fact that many of his moves are too much like finishers...but on the other hands that like sayings "Hey Teddy, too many of your moves are awesome, get some lamer ones".

This only proves what SOS said about Teddy's horrible in-ring psychology. Ring Psychology 101; finishers are theoretically supposed to be the biggest, baddest moves in your moveset, which is supported as well by the selling of your opponent. When like five of your moves are of more or less equal in intensity as your finisher, the move you actually call your finisher loses its luster, unless every opponent it's done to goes out of his way to sell it like a gunshot.

"Lamer" ones serve to make your actual finisher look better. If your moveset is comprised of entirely "awesome" moves, then you're a fucking CAW and that is fucking stupid.

Mhhh so what does that makes Hostyle and Kelson then?

Teddy has set finishers: SSP, SSP Legdrop and a Canadian Destroyer. It just happens that many of his "normal" moves could be considered finisher worthy by others, such as his cradle DDT. But to say that "proves" he's a spot monkey is bullshit. It's how you use those moves that decides how much psychology you have. Teddy uses his more powerful non-finishers similar to many; as near fall moves that move the match forward and build up the tension that the next move could end the match. When it comes to the finish he uses one of his finishers to the match. However because he changes or updates his finishers every few years he

Romeo wrote:

ToastErr wrote:

Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne is watered down. CM Punk is watered down.

Being "watered down" isn't always a bad thing. Evan Bourne and Tyson Kidd proved that you can still be flippy while maintaining psychology. CM Punk is technically watered down but he's still entertaining than most of the roster because his fundamentals are a little different. Teddy is what you call a spot monkey; it might be entertaining to watch in the beginning but when you think about it, it's really mindless.

The term "Spot Monkey" originally applied to wrestlers who worked the formula of: Hit a move, play to crowd, get beat up, repeat. Hart can do more than this.

Romeo wrote:

ToastErr wrote:

He does moves for the sake of doing moves because the indies encourage him to do so.

That doesn't mean it's smart. The indies have little to no psychology at all and that's why Teddy hasn't developed his.

I don't accept either of those two points at all. "The Indies" don't encourage no psychology because it does them no favours and get them criticised (vaguely so) by bigger companies. The Promoter gives you instructs before a match and you go out there and try and interpret them the best you can via your abilities. Just because some workers can't deliver on that doesn't mean they were "encouraged" to. I mean seriously, what Indies have "no psychology"? RoH and PWG are both lead by the likes of Roderick Strong, Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli and Colt Cabana who are hardly spot monkeys now are they? IWA-MS, whether its in business or not, had a tradition for not just building stars, but solid wrestlers and their legacy of guys like CM Punk, Jimmy Jacobs and Delirious. CHIKARA has been known to have some sloppiness at the bottom of the card but considering their almost a mirco-indie and many of their guys are brand new rookies that understandable. Those rookies will learn there over time under the fabulous tutor-age of Mike Quackenbush.
In fact the only noted indie I can think of that has no psychology aspect set in cement is CZW. I don't think I have to elaborate there.

Romeo wrote:

The Celt wrote:

You know Teddy is known as this "jerk" backstage, yet he really has to be put in perspective. He's a bad guy in the mind of the smarks because he pissed off Punk because he pulled some unplanned spots which he claims where the result of a concussion

Do you know what that unplanned spot was? It was a dive from the top of a cage. If the other guys weren't thinking quick, they probably wouldn't have been unable to catch him. Do you know how dangerous is that for all who were involved?

It was a selfish move on his part, and if people actually let that pass, it's only going to encourage him because he thinks it's okay for him to do that kind of shit, it's okay to REALLY endanger himself and his co-workers as long as the fans think it's in the script, eh?

I was absolutely aware of what the infamous (or notorious) spot was. That shit happens all the F'N time Romes. If he had a bad concussion, which I think he did, was the equivalent of being fucked up totally drunk. Being in that condition a man is capable of all sorts of shit he can't control.

Yeah it was dangerous as fuck, but I've seen far worst happen in the ring that was done without a concussion. Brian Lee was in a scaffold match with one of the safest and most trustworthy workers in the business and yet he missed about half the tables he was supposed to go through due to getting his fall/launch wrong. Chris Benoit broke Sabu's neck via a fucked suplex. Brock Lesnar almost killed himself doing a SSP at Wrestlemania (which was certainly unplanned). Undertaker almost killed himself with a plancha at last year's Wrestlemania because the camera guy and Shawn didn't catch him. None of those people were given "fucking retard" heat for their actions so it's so silly to me that Hart still has that thrown against him again and again.

I'd also like to that most match aren't scripted anyways. Promoters tend to only ask for a finish and maybe some key spots, the rest is the often called in ring. And I'm not just talking about the indies. I remember HHH saying all he needed was a finish to work a half an hour match on the fly. You see a guy going for a dive, you do you're best to get under him, that's just how shit goes. If it doesn't work out you don't hold it against one another because likely it was an accident that someone mistimed it.

Teddy Hart's dive off the Cage wasn't selfish; it was wrestling.

Romeo wrote:

The Celt wrote:

Whatever people want to say, there's a certain X factor or charisma about Teddy that Tyson nor Harry have.

Oh, and Rey Mysterio doesn't? It's nothing new, the two basically have the exact same type of offense, after Teddy gets watered down.

I wasn't placing Hart above everyone else, I was just saying he has more of that X factor than Tyson and Harry. Personally I think Hart and Mysterio have totally different styles of wrestling. Mysterio is about a steady flow of Lucha moves, maybe some technical moves at the opening of a the match, built around being an underdog/selling hard for most guys and getting to hit the 619. Hart is more balanced in the sense he tries to do all different types of moves, doing grapples towards the middle and using high flying stuff to finish his oppenent. Hart and Mysterio might have a very few basic moves in common, thats it.

Romeo wrote:

SOS wrote:

Teddy Hart is telling people in Mexico that he is going to be coming in to WWE with Bret Hart. The feeling in Mexico is that if he does go, he won't last long because "he hasn't learned one thing since he's been there (in Mexico)." The feeling is that Teddy has lots of talent but limited ring psychology and never listens to anyone, which is why WWE released him from a deal before.

Now, think about ^ for a second. This is a guy who still has a lot to learn, but he thinks he's above the system and he can do no wrong because his last name is Hart, and he can jump higher and spin faster than anyone.

But why do two of his good friends, TJ Wilson and Harry Smith, one who isn't a Hart and one whose family name isn't as beloved as Hart, already have jobs on the big time and he doesn't? To put it in perspective, he's like House; totally good at what he does but is a huge asshole, but at least House will admit it when he is wrong.

You may like him, but nobody wants to work with a jackass, and nobody's probably going to push a jackass. Your wrestlers are human too.

To be honest, In my view Teddy will do more to prove he's a Hart than anyone else. He'll work harder, go further to live up to the family name which is so incredibly proud of. In fact I'd almost say Teddy is obsessed with becoming a great wrestler just to keep the Hart name in wrestling meaning something. And if you don't like that then he's got no problem walking away.


Anyways, the bottom line is Teddy Hart is a capable wrestler once people take off their smark/hater goggles and give him a shot. Proof? The following match. Good Psychology on the part of Teddy Hart and all (less so Jack Evans ). If you don't mark out for the finish you fucking suck.


SST (Homicide & B Boy) vs. Hart Foundation (Evans & Hart) Cage Match 1/3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlroiP7w-wg

SST (Homicide & B Boy) vs. Hart Foundation (Evans & Hart) Cage Match 2/3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8RXt9mMFYo&feature=related

SST (Homicide & B Boy) vs. Hart Foundation (Evans & Hart) Cage Match 3/3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53E0HY96OPs&feature=related

The Celt wrote:

Mhhh so what does that makes Hostyle and Kelson then?

Not that over... have you noticed that quite a few people have criticized their gimmicks?

The Celt wrote:

Teddy has set finishers: SSP, SSP Legdrop and a Canadian Destroyer. It just happens that many of his "normal" moves could be considered finisher worthy by others, such as his cradle DDT. But to say that "proves" he's a spot monkey is bullshit. It's how you use those moves that decides how much psychology you have. Teddy uses his more powerful non-finishers similar to many; as near fall moves that move the match forward and build up the tension that the next move could end the match. When it comes to the finish he uses one of his finishers to the match. However because he changes or updates his finishers every few years he

He what?

Anyway, you haven't argued otherwise, you just made an observation. Yes, it's how you use them, and it's also what you use.

The Celt wrote:

The term "Spot Monkey" originally applied to wrestlers who worked the formula of: Hit a move, play to crowd, get beat up, repeat. Hart can do more than this.

"Originally" applied. What does it mean now? Isn't it a wrestler who frequently hits high spots for the sake of hitting high spots? He can probably do more than what the original meaning prescribes, but he can't get away with the contemporary definition now.

The Celt wrote:

I don't accept either of those two points at all. "The Indies" don't encourage no psychology because it does them no favours and get them criticised (vaguely so) by bigger companies. The Promoter gives you instructs before a match and you go out there and try and interpret them the best you can via your abilities. Just because some workers can't deliver on that doesn't mean they were "encouraged" to. I mean seriously, what Indies have "no psychology"? RoH and PWG are both lead by the likes of Roderick Strong, Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli and Colt Cabana who are hardly spot monkeys now are they? IWA-MS, whether its in business or not, had a tradition for not just building stars, but solid wrestlers and their legacy of guys like CM Punk, Jimmy Jacobs and Delirious. CHIKARA has been known to have some sloppiness at the bottom of the card but considering their almost a mirco-indie and many of their guys are brand new rookies that understandable. Those rookies will learn there over time under the fabulous tutor-age of Mike Quackenbush.
In fact the only noted indie I can think of that has no psychology aspect set in cement is CZW. I don't think I have to elaborate there.

Very well, you watch more indy than I do.

The Celt wrote:

I was absolutely aware of what the infamous (or notorious) spot was. That shit happens all the F'N time Romes. If he had a bad concussion, which I think he did, was the equivalent of being fucked up totally drunk. Being in that condition a man is capable of all sorts of shit he can't control.

Yeah it was dangerous as fuck, but I've seen far worst happen in the ring that was done without a concussion. Brian Lee was in a scaffold match with one of the safest and most trustworthy workers in the business and yet he missed about half the tables he was supposed to go through due to getting his fall/launch wrong. Chris Benoit broke Sabu's neck via a fucked suplex. Brock Lesnar almost killed himself doing a SSP at Wrestlemania (which was certainly unplanned). Undertaker almost killed himself with a plancha at last year's Wrestlemania because the camera guy and Shawn didn't catch him. None of those people were given "fucking retard" heat for their actions so it's so silly to me that Hart still has that thrown against him again and again.

I'd also like to that most match aren't scripted anyways. Promoters tend to only ask for a finish and maybe some key spots, the rest is the often called in ring. And I'm not just talking about the indies. I remember HHH saying all he needed was a finish to work a half an hour match on the fly. You see a guy going for a dive, you do you're best to get under him, that's just how shit goes. If it doesn't work out you don't hold it against one another because likely it was an accident that someone mistimed it.

Teddy Hart's dive off the Cage wasn't selfish; it was wrestling.

Okay, this is where I will draw the line. That reasoning is complete, utter, selfish bullshit.

If it happens all the time, don't you think it should be happening LESS? Besides, your point is invalidated by the fact that the examples you listed in comparison are BOTCHES and not selfish spots, hence they cannot be given "fucking retard" heat. That scaffold match incident was the result of a coordinated spot that went wrong due to, once again, physical error, not a selfish spot. Benoit breaking Sabu's neck was the result of a bad landing because of a move Sabu knew he was going to take, not a selfish spot. Taker almost killed himself in a PLANNED spot (because that cameraman was Sim Snuka in disguise) because Snuka didn't catch him right, not a selfish spot.

There is a difference, Celt, learn it. Teddy went up that cage after the match was over just to give the crowd one more "holy shit" on his behalf, and the rest of his coworkers didn't know what was going to happen until he dove. Tell me that how that is the same thing as the examples you listed. They're equally dangerous, yes, but they weren't the same things.

And the mere fact that you're saying, "hey, Teddy can have that spot, so much worse has happened in the ring!" is indicative of how selfish fans really are. I remember JBL giving a little speech after the Armageddon 06 incident with the Hardys and Joey Mercury about how the fans will just cheer anything that greatly endangers the workers, whether it was planned or not; I thought he was spot-on then and I still think he is correct now.

I know that most matches are called on the fly, I wasn't born yesterday. But calling a match is a two-way street, Celt, the doer and the receiver BOTH have to know what is going to happen to keep safe. It's regarded as complete asshattery for one guy to do whatever he wants without the consent of his coworker.

Teddy's dive wasn't selfish, and for you to pigeonhole it as something that should be overlooked makes you very selfish as well.

The Celt wrote:

I wasn't placing Hart above everyone else, I was just saying he has more of that X factor than Tyson and Harry. Personally I think Hart and Mysterio have totally different styles of wrestling. Mysterio is about a steady flow of Lucha moves, maybe some technical moves at the opening of a the match, built around being an underdog/selling hard for most guys and getting to hit the 619. Hart is more balanced in the sense he tries to do all different types of moves, doing grapples towards the middle and using high flying stuff to finish his oppenent. Hart and Mysterio might have a very few basic moves in common, thats it.

Yes, you basically said the big difference is that Mysterio knows how to utilize psychology and Teddy doesn't. And their specific movesets are not what I meant, I meant their general style and ability. That stuff places people like Mysterio, Tyson Kidd and Bourne distinct from the main roster.

The Celt wrote:

To be honest, In my view Teddy will do more to prove he's a Hart than anyone else. He'll work harder, go further to live up to the family name which is so incredibly proud of. In fact I'd almost say Teddy is obsessed with becoming a great wrestler just to keep the Hart name in wrestling meaning something. And if you don't like that then he's got no problem walking away.

But he didn't.

He was in developmental before, and he was fired because he didn't work hard to listen to advice. If he really wanted to prove himself, he would've been humble. Instead, he wanted to be demanded the birthright since his last name was Hart.

The Celt wrote:

Anyways, the bottom line is Teddy Hart is a capable wrestler once people take off their smark/hater goggles and give him a shot.

Oh, Teddy screwed Teddy. You're the one who's going out of his way to bend over waaay backwards to defend him.