FMW Debate Cinco Start NOW!

For as long as I can remember at anytime Drew held a title, he seemingly defended it every show. World, C-4, you name it. Hell, it's the only reason he'd face me at 12.1.

Still, while he has this obsession with being a uber fighting champion (I find it stupid to some extent, because it can take away from some solid feuds and it makes it look like you're just handing out title shots all willy-nilly), he has a point. Titles should be defended. Regularly. At least once or twice a cycle.

But it needs to be even. The TV title stip is 'defend it at all TV programming (AMM/COR) and maybe on PPV' and that's a huge part of that title. But look at TyranT. I <3 the guy, and he's coming up on a full calendar year as champion. He's defended the title at every PPV since the event he won it at. That amounts to, to my knowledge, 2 defenses (v. Ro and v. Skyler/Doc). 2 defenses a year is unacceptable and I think some of the blame falls on the fact that TyranT runs two great characters and that we as a staff seem to take too fucking long to produce a show.

I digress.

Look, titles should be what we strive for as competitors, assuming we want to win. As a result, not only do we need to be hungry for them, these titles need to be attainable, at least look like they are. The World title looks unreachable because, take this year, you only got two chances at it and one chance was taken by the continuation of a feud. The other? A guaranteed title shot won in a match that the 'cream' of the crop got to compete for (nothing against Frost, he's a damn fine writer and person and I fully believe he's earned a crack at it). C-4 title? Held by me, and honestly most of my focus lied with the Tag Belts and above that, the various story arcs I'd run with Alex O. TV title? self-explanatory. AB title? could possibly be held by the next UV champion and thus he's going to be run ragged. Tag Belts? Lack of teams.

I understand AVO's point about maintaining luster and what not, but I think a title's luster lies with the lineage of its previous holders, not with the regularity or lack thereof of defenses, but take the UV title.

War Machine (went on to win TV title)
Drew Michaels (future World Champ)
X (went on to win TV title)
John Derrick (Future World Champ)
Jaro (was a title shot away from World Title)
Nick Bryson (Future World Champ)
Harlequin (was a title shot away from World title)
Jaro (see first entry)
Harlequin (see first entry)

Look at that list. That's a who's who and not only that, it's proven to be a stepping stone for the holders of the title and these are huge factors as it relates to my personal desire of it. Not many titles can boast that sort of lineage. Not even the C-4 title. Not to mention that most of these people made successful defenses.

So, I do think that titles could stand a slight increase in defending, but the hunger will always be there. If you want to increase the hunger, then open up the defenses SLIGHTLY. Find a happy medium. Not defend them every show (I want the champion to have earned his shot, not just be the second listed guy on the roster that won his last match), but once a cycle, depending on the title, could stand to be altered.

Tromboner Man wrote:

Tromboner Man wrote:

I've learned the hard way to not argue on forums while drinking. So when I'm sober, I'll totally get back to you.

Frost, I promised to get back to you and I am.

Take the extremes of our promos. Your promos and mine.

You've hit as low as 9 pages. I've hit as low as 5 Pages.

You've hit as high as 26 pages. I've hit as high as 14.

I think it's fair to say that you're seen as main event, while once upon a time, I was the FMW Champion. I'm not on the main event level any more. But allow me to paint you a word picture.

I was contemplating coming back for a long time, However, with the trend for long ass promos becoming more and more prominant, it was a big argument in the against column for me. This is coming from a guy who loves FMW, thinks it's a fantastic and innovative fed. But I was almost willing to throw away a return to active competition because I felt like for me to be competitive, I needed to write promos which hit the 20 page length regularly. If this happened to a veteran, a former Gold Card Champion, and former FMW Champion, think of how much this will deter people who have had no history or emotional ties to the fed.

I'm not in this competition, and I haven't been booked in forever so I think people have forgotten/stopped caring about me, but I wanted to give validation to this notion. I pretty much never expect to win anything anymore in this fed, and it's partially because I know I can't go past 8 or 10 pages in word without boring myself. Sometimes, convincing myself to write my promo (and I have like a dozen promo ideas banked, so I don't even have to come up with an idea) feels like a chore, because I feel I'd have to torture myself for the length needed to win. So, I stopped caring about winning. I do this for me now. It's way more enjoyable this way.

Relating to the 2nd question, I don't give a fuck about titles anymore. Winning, holding a title... it's all nice. But at this point I feel that who wins/loses a match is basically arbitrary, and that you should be promoing based on what you want to write. At this point I don't even care about storylines, because I've seen so many dropped basically after 2 or 3 shows... occasionally even one show. Nothing ever follows the arc you expect it/want it to follow, so there's no point in getting invested in them. Just enjoy them as they happen.

I can understand the importance of titles being regularly defended once or twice every cycle but there seems to be a lack of Number One Contendership matches over here, I dunno if that's because you guys don't like having those types of matches or if it's to do with the fact that it just won't work because you would have the likes of Wrestler X getting title shots at every PPV imaginable.

Just a thought, maybe we should start introducing those type of matches and place them in the final card of each cycle.

Infernapostasy wrote:

I'm not in this competition, and I haven't been booked in forever so I think people have forgotten/stopped caring about me, but I wanted to give validation to this notion. I pretty much never expect to win anything anymore in this fed, and it's partially because I know I can't go past 8 or 10 pages in word without boring myself. Sometimes, convincing myself to write my promo (and I have like a dozen promo ideas banked, so I don't even have to come up with an idea) feels like a chore, because I feel I'd have to torture myself for the length needed to win. So, I stopped caring about winning. I do this for me now. It's way more enjoyable this way.

Relating to the 2nd question, I don't give a fuck about titles anymore. Winning, holding a title... it's all nice. But at this point I feel that who wins/loses a match is basically arbitrary, and that you should be promoing based on what you want to write. At this point I don't even care about storylines, because I've seen so many dropped basically after 2 or 3 shows... occasionally even one show. Nothing ever follows the arc you expect it/want it to follow, so there's no point in getting invested in them. Just enjoy them as they happen.

this man speaks the truth on both topics that we've had.

I agree with the point Storm made of Number one Contender matches. In my opinion who fights for a strap is made up by the writers and there really is no rhyme or reason other than its a good story or a matchup of bigger names. If we have a contenders match on the third show of a cycle or even the second to build a fire for the PPV I think it would mean alot more. Maybe have a title match the second show of a cycle and have the contenders match the third show. After the second show build some heat for a title match at the PPV. It has to be even and cyclical. I am in the camp that its bullshit that the World Title has only been defended twice in the year I have been here but I am a small voice in a large pond. I think right now the staff is feeling bogged down and needs help...I will offer assistance again!!!

About #1 Contenders matches... we just had one at Corruption 12.1.

But that said, this is just a time when many people have earned shots due to the FMW Games. Speaking of, Apostasy actually still has a shot he can cash in.

So I steered clear of debate question numero uno, not because I didn't care about the topic, rather it was a case of writing "ditto" seemed a little pointless to me. Then I see debate topic duex, a topic near and dear to me. A topic that I have had completely unprovoked rants about in the past and so I think I must have a part of this.

I would if I may, like to address to seperate issues here.

Firstly, we currently in FMW have 2 shows, Ammunition & Corruption, at the same time we have the FMW, Ultraviolent, Abandoned, C-4, TV & Tag Team Championships. That is 6, count 'em SIX championships and then on top of that we have The Gold Card, The Torch (Mount V) & The Hayabusa Cup to fit into a year as well. On the face of it this may seem like a lot of belts but I am here to say that is one belt away from perfect.

That one thing that has to go is the FMW Championship. Controversial you say? Perhaps... Relevant? Well, here me out......

We don't need the FMW Championship, each show has now an A and a B singles Championship. We have the Tag Team Champioship as a floating belt and rightly so unless we see a surge in Tag Team numbers as this just has to happen. But then we have a floating FMW Championship. The mother of all belts, the champion of champions floating between shows and able to be challenged for by anyone on the roster.

And defended twice in a year!!!

So the title is clearly not really that big a part of the proceedings anyway. I would argue that we lose this belt and have one PPV per year.... probably Ultimatum, that isn't really important..... but at this one PPV we have a match. It's the same match every year and that is the C-4 Champion vs the Ultraviolent Champion. It would be the only time all year the two champions would battle it out (as Champions at least) and it would hold for a year the title of Champion of Champions.

This would allow each show to be stronger. It would mean the top guys in Ammunition are focussed on the C-4 and simlarly with the UV for Corruption. Instead at the moment we have a C-4 champion who has openly stated he is more interested in the FMW Championship than his own belt, our most recent C-4 Champion effectively out of the C-4 race (working on the assumption that he will now be injected into the FMW Title framework) and a Gold Card Gauntlet winner whose number one target is (or maybe was as he may have deserted the Fed) also the FMW Champion.

That is 3 of the very best roster members on Ammunition who are focusing on a non Ammunition belt meaning a lack of focus on storylines that work for that show. A similar situation is true for Corruption where Frost & Tyrant himself are out of the Ultraviolent race. On top of that there are probably other main eventers with rematches/FMP's etc that put them into FMW Championship contention.

So I say that we can the FMW Championship or, if you prefer, retain it as the once a year prize that can only be fought for by the C-4 & UV Champions at Ultimatum. It will even give us a bit of a "Road to Wrestlemania" type of buzz heading into that time of the year. Alternatively maybe anyone who held either the C-4 or UV during the year gets an entry into that match? (although personally this wouldn't be my preferred option)

Now onto my second point...

I won't start on the FMW Championship as far as the number (or lack thereof) of title defenses as my first point renders this moot. What I will say is this....

We need more structure in Title defenses. At the moment it is willy nilly and unstructured, part of this is due simply to the sheer number of people with guaranteed shots. Rematch clauses are a part of the problem as this clogs up the belt for the next person to get a shot. I have said before and will say until the day I finish in FMW that if we have rematch clauses then there must be stipulations:

1. You MUST make at least one succseful Title defense to earn a rematch.
2. You MUST take the rematch on the VERY NEXT show, otherwise you fofeit the right.

After that there are the winners in FMW games and then there are those tireless staff members with a bank of FMP's. So really while a previous debater said he felt the title shots were assigned by the bookers and not giving others a chance in truth I suspect their hands are forced by people demanding their guaranteed shots.

I think we need to limit the times we give gauranteed shots (as done with the FMW games) to simply the Gold Card, Mt Vesuvius (and maybe we need one of those for each show now that I am proposing abolition of the FMW Championship) and rematches. If we want to put up rewards like we did at FMW games then they should be into number 1 contender matches. I think the FMP system must remain as staff deserve to be rewarded and in truth besides Crash Scene I struggle to remember the last time someone cashed some in anyway.

I would then propose that each cycle goes (something) like this: (this is not applicable to the TV title which has its own unique stipulation as we are all aware....

First show of the cycle

- Rematch if applicable for each Championship otherwise a title match relevant to storyline as detemined by bookers
- 1 or 2 qualifying matches into a #1 contender match on the second show of cycle.

Second show of the cycle

- No title match
- qualifiers from show 1 compete to become #1 contender with winner getting shot at the next PPV

Third show of the cycle

- #1 contender for PPV is now known, this show should be used to build some heat before the PPV (probably some sort of non title match or ad-hoc team match etc involving challenger(s) and champio.

PPV

Title match takes place.

I think a map along those lines makes a title shot more interesting (by building some heat in advance, more achievable (by qualifying via two matches meaning more people involved) and more prestigious (by not happening every show.)

I also think we need to stop mutliple champions, with the exception of the Tag Team belt which is its own category. For example I don't think Seth should be able to hold both Corruption belts. This should mean the lower card guys have a better chance of getting the "B" belt on each show as the top guys will be focussed on the "A" belt..... this could well have the flow on benefit to debate topic 1 where the rookies get hooked a lot more because they think they might actualy have a chance at winning something some time soon.

It also should stop the ridiculous number of "I challenge you for your belt" trash talk occurences if the manner of obtaining a shot is predetermined (and yes I am aware that I do this).

In summary I know that is a lot of changes to what has been a very succesful e-fed, but I honestly think that by making the belts show focussed, more prestigious, more attainable to everyone, more structured and building more heat into PPV matches that it will increase the hunger for belts without making them more the domain of the few guys who seem to get all the shots now anyway.

Thankyou for your time.

Interesting, you've basically just proposed the Martinez Cup.

I'll reply to this at length later, I don't have the time now. But I have a good argument for it.

I'm not going to debate as I really don't want to write essays for each when only ze winner gets credit. However I have to say this.

We aren't LPW, we may need to change things, but we need to be unique as well. If we're going to be them we might as well shut our doors and let them be them, they've been doing it longer.

Alex and I cashed in FMPs

Since then I've been stockpiling in order to cash in at Ultimatum 3. I'm ONE DAMN FMP AWAY.

I don't know what the Martinez Cup is. Nor do I really know very much about LPW Alex so not sure exactly what you are getting at.

I just think some things could be done better

Basically what you outlined is pretty well the entire show structure of LPW, at least when it comes down to the top titles. Two main titles one for each show, and a main prize at the largest PPV of the year for a champion vs. champion match.

Not saying we don't need to do something different, but what's made us special is being a bit unique, and if we're going to be another fed we might as well just cede to that fed.

I personally think FMPs need to be abolished, actually.

"Hey, I ran the FMW SURVIVOR game on the forum. I deserve 3 points towards booking myself for a title match of my choice somewhere along the line."

Maybe I'm bitter because I never GOT any FMPs, (I think you'll find this is true, which confuses me a bit due to the amount of work I put into the fed as a writer around the Anxiety/UG era; you'd think I'd have one or two,)

But to shit on RCA's grand plan; I don't think something as simple as producing/writing for a show should eventually give you the opportunity to go for THE belt.

Actually, keep the point system, but remove the titleshot reward they give; let point horders get a match that they'd like to be in but have never had chance to do for whatever reason.

Apart from that, I agree with the sentiments already put forth in this thread.

Id like to completely disagree with the post above before I go on to debate this topic.

The fact that RCA head writes a show consistently and awesomely... should be one of the MAIN reasons that he gets a shot at the title. Participation... and talent. Those are really the only two reasons a person should need to get a shot. And how can you possibly participate more than by head writing a major brand show each and every time it comes out? When I joined this fed almost three years ago, participation in any form(especially staff wise) was a big contributing factor to getting "pushed". And I don't dare say Jaro was wrong for making that so.

With that, I'll debate the topic.

It is NOT Tyrant's fault that he's only had two defenses so far. The MAIN TITLE should only be defended at ppv's. So, that is definitely a staffing problem, or a lack of staffing really. Also, the World Championship should not be canned. A world title has been a staple in every wrestling organization since the dawn of fucking time. If anything, the UV title/AB title match should be a Unification Match. Besides, having two brand titles signifies that those men are on the top of those brands. The world title signifies that that man is on top of EVERYONE. No homo.

And title defenses should really be the champ's decision, at least when it comes to everything but the World Title. Say someone comes in, wins a good few matches, and starts up an excellent trash talking feud with a current champ. That person should be rewarded for their participation, whether it be by the champ himself, or upper management.

I mean, there should definitely be mandatory defenses as well. One each PPV and one on the second show of the cycle for brand titles. But if a current champ decides to reward someone for their excellent participation, then so be it.

And getting rid of any title would be a distaster, unless its the AB title... which kind of seems out of place at the moment. Sorry Seth. Because, at this point in time, we desperately need to increase our roster size. What's more enticing than seeing a plethora of titles one could potentially go for? It's not like everyone in the company has one. The best and brightest have those titles.

And, to pull from the first question, those titles would bring in more people. And to pull from the Quantity versus Quality debate, how would you feel if you stepped into a new e-fed, saw only three titles, and THEN SAW that the one's holding them were delivering devastating promos every outing? A plethora of titles equals a plethora of ranged talent which equals a constant hunger for one of those titles.

And the hunger should never die. Besides having fun, titles are the main reason to try and get better as a writer. With each title held, each successful defense, and each mind blowing feud... one just begins to feel more confident in their writing and in their story telling.

So, in summation:

Title defenses basically every other show for brand titles. World title every PPV(which, to be effective, we need a better turnaround for shows). Champions should be allowed to reward those that they see fit if they so choose.

Hunger for the titles should never die. Those straps are a symbolic milestone for our growing abilities as writers and storytellers.

I know I promised to debate about the World Champion topic, but I'd rather talk about the Abandoned Championship since that is under my jurisdiction now.

When the plan came through that Distortion was to be cancelled, obviously you had a floating title. The plan was to reorganize the ranking of the titles. The plan was to have one lowercard title and one upper-midcard title each for both shows, then tag team titles, then the floating World Championship. Symmetrical.

To accomplish this, some things had to be done. First there was the issue of the Light Heavyweight title's existence, due to Leviticus's angle. This is why the TV title was unified with the LHW title, to make that unified title the lowercard championship on AMM, with the C-4 the corresponding upper-midcard championship.

Since the TV title was now officially under AMM, that left only one brand-specific championship on COR. That's where the Abandoned championship comes in. My plan was, and still is to make it COR's lower-card championship; it just so happens that the Distortion winners still thought highly of the Abandoned title and still chose to go for it. A perfect scenario would have been possible if AVO won the title from Seth, since AVO is technicaly lower in the card (no offense), just to set it in motion.

The AB title seems out of place now because I still happen to maintain its prestige by putting title matches higher up in the card (mostly due to the UV title still being vacant and the FMW Games shots cashed mostly for the AB title), but after Mt. V, the real shifting will begin. It may be hard if Leon wins the title, but I'll find some way around it.

Hannibal Frost wrote:

Also, the World Championship should not be canned. A world title has been a staple in every wrestling organization since the dawn of fucking time.

Basically I was using the current WWE format as my model when I put my case forward. Smackdown & Raw have a belt each, sure one is called the World Heavyweight Championship, but that's simply a name. In almost all other ways it is the same set up (ie each has a "B" belt.... IC & US)

The point of losing the belt is that when our roster is thin as it is having two to three guys focussed on a belt not really part of that show weakens it even further. It effectively means that UV & C-4 are "B" belts and TV/AB are now "C" belts.......

On top of that the guy who is on top of Amm/Corr as that show's champ is effectively out of the running for the top belt if they have to defend that so it's not really a case of who's on top of everyone. It's who's on top of the guys who have decided they are too good for the other belts...

I refuse to debate anymore.

However, I will say this.

We have too many titles for the amount of competitors we have. Tag Titles, Ultraviolent, C-4, FMW. That's all we need at the moment. With the Abandoned and TV (and until recently, the Light Heavyweight) in the fray, people could seemingly feud over a title, not get it, and move seemlessly into another title contention. It cheapens the long term hate feuds which build the prestige and value of a competitor, where nothing but pride is on the line. Lessen the amount of opportunities, and make people work harder to achieve a championship opportunity. It will raise the value of a title shot, make people sit up and take notice of a person when they get the shots.

I chose those 4 titles, because they're the titles with the most historical significance to the fed. They're the oldest titles, each with a unique stigma to it. Pure Wrestling, Hardcore Wrestling, Tag Team Wrestling, Main Event Wrestling.

The Abandoned Title, the "Gimmick" title is essentially the Ultraviolent Title Lite. The TV title, while prestigious because of it's fighting history, is a stepping stone which I see as something which could prolong someone's stint in the undercard. Take Syanide for example. He held it for a bloody long time, and when he finally lost it, and was able to FINALLY take the long overdue progression up the card, he was burnt out. Jack Boice had a similar thing, and I know Mask was head writer for LPW Insanity at the time, but I feel the constant need to defend shortened his time here in FMW. It's something I'm worried will happen to David GS, with defenses every show, we'll find him burning out and leaving, since I can see him holding it for a long time, and he's someone who probably should move up the card.

Keep the Tag Team - it's an art that's somewhat been lost in FMW, and it's a bloody hard art as well. Believe me, I should know. Keep the C-4 and Ultraviolent championships. When people think of FMW, they think of the two contrasting divisions of C-4 and UV. Keep the FMW Title, it's the elite title. 4 titles.

All four of them with 2-3 defenses every cycle. It makes getting a shot at them harder. It makes winning them even harder. It makes keeping them even harder again.

Unifications galore.

This is like 2001-2002 WWE.

Hannibal Frost wrote:

Id like to completely disagree with the post above before I go on to debate this topic.

The fact that RCA head writes a show consistently and awesomely... should be one of the MAIN reasons that he gets a shot at the title. Participation... and talent. Those are really the only two reasons a person should need to get a shot. And how can you possibly participate more than by head writing a major brand show each and every time it comes out? When I joined this fed almost three years ago, participation in any form(especially staff wise) was a big contributing factor to getting "pushed". And I don't dare say Jaro was wrong for making that so.

I'm going to continue to argue this point, as I feel it somewhat ties in to the subject, and, well, it's something that occured to me and this seems as good a place to voice it as any.

It's all well and good that participation will get you pushed, but why should that be limited (as it certainly seems,) to Head Writers?

At which point does it stop being RCA being a great writer who puts a great deal of work into the fed, and start being STAFF 4 TITLESHOTSlol.

We all can't head write Ammunition. We can't all write for the shows either. We can't all manage FMW THE MOLE or whatever spin off is being done.

Wow, I'm turning this into an assault on FMPs, I'll tie it back in at the end.

The only thing we can all do is trash talk like a mother fucker, maybe foster some newbies or something. These are the things I feel should be rewarded with some sort of credit that can be cashed in for a match.

And even then, I don't think it should be a title match.

Let's draw up an example.

THE CELT has X amount of FMPs, enough to cash in for a PPV match. He has done this by displaying amazing TTing in TT threads, and by showing Jacky McNoob the ropes.
Now, lets say he wants another crack at Jaro or something.

So it's Celt vs. Jaro.

So Celt gets the match he wants.

NOW,

Lets say Celt takes it up a notch and beats Jaro. Huge win for the Celt, right?
Lets say the staff say 'ohshit Celts stepped it up lets come up with some sort of angle that puts him in the title chase.'

That'd be awesome.

In a lot of circles of roleplaying there's a saying that goes; ICA=ICC. In Character Actions equate to In Character Consequences. This is basically to govern if a dragonvampireninja decides to charges headfirst at a gunman screaming he'll feast on the afformentioned Gunmans soul. dragonvampireninja is going to get shot.

But by the same token, In Character Rewards should be determined by In Character Actions.

I'd like to stress that I have no issue with Mr. Austin. I seem to have used him as an example in all my posts so far. It just seems the man is the best example I can come up with.

AS FOR THE ACTUAL SUBJECT.

With a large amount of titles now in FMW, how often should we have title matches and to what degree should we increase/decrease the level of hunger for titles in FMW.

Actually fuck the subject I'll keep going.

I honestly feel that FMPs need to be restructured. I'm not saying to strip Austin of the points he's horded. Hell, let him round up and give him his titleshot. Just set a date, a show, and say 'AFTER THIS POINT FMPs WILL BE REWARDED FOR THIS CRITERIA.'

Make that criteria something that is solely In Character; so that it is available for everyone to compete for.
Because what's more exciting; a currency ANYONE on the roster can get? Or a currency that seems to be for the most part to be exclusive to staff, or just not given out from show to show at all?

(The VCW awards would be a great idea on how to give out points; x amount for the best trash talker of a brand, x amount for the best promo of a brand, x amount for the all round best superstar of a brand? Why not?)

Off topic, I know, but it lends itself to ?'s topic, so I'll go on.

A possible overhaul of the FMP's could look like this.

1 FMP for a Victory
1 FMP for the highest promo score on a show
1 FMP for the most influential/impressive trash talker, as chosen by the headbooker.

25 FMPs currently buys you a main event on a PPV of your choosing. That'd be 13 Victories with the best promo score on the show, or most influential trash talker. It's still a hard feat to acheive, but it would see more people earning FMPs more quickly, and hopefully improve the cash in rate.

I actually think steele made a valid point in abolishing the FMW Title. We all consider it the top prize but how great is it if we rarely see it defended or the holder do anything much at all. If we do the Champion of Champions thing at least each brand will be building up to it and gunning for a shot at a title that is routinely defended. His path of how a cycle should work is very similiar to what I was proposing.

As for what Ro said about there being a Contenders match at 12.1...Yes there was but Celt got screwed out of it because I had a Title shot from the Games. In my mind I ws still building up to Title Shot Caliber and I failed because I wasn't up to that caliber or eschelon in my eyes and my writing wasn't on par with Seth's, where the Celt's is and he would have done much better. I think the amount of Titles is ok if things are done right and they are almost there in my opinion. As far as the Tag Titles go, don't just slap Tag Teams together like the WWE is doing but maybe make like a tournament or something that rewards Teams being developed. Spruance and I developed a team around a common intrest in subtance abuse and totally not giving a shit about what goes on. Other folks may also have a common thread to build on too. And not just the hey you are my brother thing

Axel Van Osbourne wrote:

As for what Ro said about there being a Contenders match at 12.1...Yes there was but Celt got screwed out of it because I had a Title shot from the Games. In my mind I ws still building up to Title Shot Caliber and I failed because I wasn't up to that caliber or eschelon in my eyes and my writing wasn't on par with Seth's, where the Celt's is and he would have done much better

Just to clarify, you using your title shot wasn't the reason behind delaying the Celt's shot at the UV title. There were other circumstances which needed the shot to be put back. The Celt hasn't been screwed out of anything. His title shot still stands and it will be used.

And as a former FMW Champion, I can tell you there's something about that belt which makes it stand out from the rest. No other belt has been as highly sought after, hotly contested, or has anywhere near the prestige that it has. The lineage, it consists of, in chronological order.

Ethan Black
Drew Michaels
Eric Scorpio
D. Hammond Samuels
Christian G. Smitten
Nick Bryson
Alex O'Rion
Hostlye
TyranT

Every name on that list a legend. Every name synonomys with FMW. No other title can boast that. The men who've held it (with the exception of me, I got lucky), have been the best of the best, and can boast that they're the real elite of FMW. No other championship can boast that. The C-4 comes close, as does the Ultraviolent, but honestly... I can't recite the lineage of either of those without consulting a history page. Or any other title for that matter. But I just did with the FMW Championship.


I think the FMW Championship has only been so rarely contended lately because of the confusion over booking it in the division format, and the lack of staff to effectively manage the three divisions. Now that we're back to two divisions, I think you'll find the FMW Championship more regularly defended.

Update of Debate Rules.

As popular demand has shown that this debate is lacking some of the criteria of its previous brothers it shall adjust itself to be like the others, thus continuing the continuation factor of this prestigious event.

Therefore please refer to the first post for an adjust first debate scorecard, which now recognise individuals efforts rather than the winner of each debate.

In final words, this debate wasn't to be different from the others, I want this to have the same competition and weight as previous debates have.

SoCal,
British Lions,
SoCal,
Commedia Del'arte,
SoCal/Dogs of War,
Quick and the Dead,
Tempest + Chris Black,
The Cancer that is Killing the Tag Team division,
HavOc,
Crash Scene,
Wayward Sons.

Just to argue I can do the same with the tag division. Unless I'm wrong.

? wrote:

SoCal,
British Lions,
SoCal,
Commedia Del'arte,
SoCal/Dogs of War,
Quick and the Dead,
Tempest + Chris Black,
The Cancer that is Killing the Tag Team division,
HavOc,
Crash Scene,
Wayward Sons.

Just to argue I can do the same with the tag division. Unless I'm wrong.

Maybe we can be the remembering brothers. We just need people who can recite every other title lineage without reminders.

Remembering brothers unite!

Axel Van Osbourne wrote:

I actually think steele made a valid point in abolishing the FMW Title. We all consider it the top prize but how great is it if we rarely see it defended or the holder do anything much at all. If we do the Champion of Champions thing at least each brand will be building up to it and gunning for a shot at a title that is routinely defended. His path of how a cycle should work is very similiar to what I was proposing.

Okay, here's the deal - it's what I was going to explain earlier.

The reason why we're not thinking much of the World Champion right now is because the World Champion is not dominant. I don't mean any offense towards TyranT here, I am just making observations.

I mean, sure, in the shows he's always going around beating people and his daughter up just because he's big and mean and strong. But other than that... TyranT has virtually no presence. He rarely trash talks, and I know that he isn't one to trash talk. But that's how you develop both a character and a following outside of what is booked for you on a show. You trash talk, and verbally show everyone why you should be the boss. No offense, but TyranT has never really done any of that. Sure, he's still over because he's always booked strongly and he always promos at a top quality... but he doesn't make himself omnipresent, as a champion should, in between shows.

In fact, the World Championship has never looked as good and prestigious since the days of... you guessed it, Ethan Black.

I'd say Black and TyranT are on about equal levels of assholishness, but Steve made Black so omnipresent that Ethan vs. Drew truly was on everyone's watch, and made Drew's win a really cathartic one.

I honestly think there's some strange curse put on the title, but that's just me spinning shit. Seriously, when you look at the list of who's been a World champ, they were never able to have enough time with the title to continue to make it mean something, due to one reason or another. Drew, TBM, Alex, Scorpio and Doc would have maintained the prestige of the title easily had they had longer reigns, because they knew how to make their characters omnipresent and intimidating to anyone and everyone, any day of the week.

But now that we have someone who's been champ for more than two PPVs, that's when we get a champ who doesn't even expose himself on a level that he should. That's why the World Championship has moved to the periphery, a place it is not meant to be in.

I ended up with these FMPs for the following reasons:

1. Ammunition went up first within a designated time period set by Jaro (Hence these tight deadlines I set, and EVERYONE who assisted in making this happen got FMPs, I made sure of it)

2. I ended up doing at least half the show (This happened a lot more than I wanted and was a main reason why I wanted to quit HW in the first place. Ask around, I've written every word of a show before)

3. I helped out on other shows (which means other staffers dropped the ball)

I did buku stuff and not all of it was for FMPs, it was to help keep the fed going because we all know how this place becomes a ghost town during show production (which is when most of the new guys seem to show up). Long story short, I feel like I've earned these points.

If the top ranking administrators of FMW feel otherwise, I will unhappily give up my FMPs.

I didn't say you hadn't earned them under the current system.

I'm saying I don't think the system is a good one.

I'm not lobbying for you to stripped of them or anything like that.

And as such, there's no need to play the martyr; 'AND WITH GREAT SORROW IN MY HEART I RELINQUISH THESE POINTS OH ADMINISTRATORS.'

I wouldn't be sad about it.

I'd be highly pissed off and I'd likely quit the fed, yeah. But no, no sadness.

<3.

I'm truly not opposed to a revamp of the FMP system though. But they were predominantly based on participation and I'd hope that's still valued.