Sex Panthers vs The Church

Who in your view made the biggest contributions to FMW in 2009, why?

Have at it gentlemen, remember both IC and OOC posts are included.

I believe the single person that made the biggest impact in FMW during 2009 was in character and out of character, Ben aka Christian G Smitten.

His character gave us countless big moments, while behind the scenes, Ben busted his butt and helped out in every way possible. He kept spirits high with his humor, while keeping groups on track. I believe that lasting evidence of his dedication and impact is the continuation of his character after his departure from our federation.

Ben is the type of person that even after he found out about a major life-changing event, even after he gave his notice, and even after he had said his goodbyes continued on during the last shows that happened during his last weeks. Up until his very last day, he would join us in AIM chats, promo for shows, and do everything possible to keep FMW at a high morale.

I defy anyone to find a bigger contributor in and out of character than our friend Ben.

Smitten is always a good man, but he was not the biggest contributor last year. The Church disagrees.

In our opinion, the man who contributed the most to FMW during 2009 was...



...Robb Clarke.


Yes, you read it right.

Here was a man who strongly helped out FMW by being, in-ring wise, a strong competitor and a dominant double champion, not to mention creating and leading the most influential stable of recent memory in HavOc. OOC-wise, Robb gave FMW a proper home all its own for a couple of years, and made it look sexy to boot.

But as everyone knows, Robb was hugely flawed. The Church believes that these flaws that comprise Robb Clarke's hubris and that lead to our move from the "Robboards" ultimately contributed to FMW's well-being in the end.

You see, despite what Robb had done for us, in the end it was like having an abusive, yet hard-working father. He did provide for us more than enough, but he was still unpredictable and volatile. We had a good home in fullmetalwrestling.com, but as long as he held the reins, we were living in uncertainty. Of course, those fears were substantiated by what happened during the little scandal, and what should have been a major hassle at any other time was actually a welcome change for us all, because here, we were able to start over without Robb's shadow hanging over us, hand always holding the plug.

It was the best thing that had happened to us in all of 2009. It's like a saint's martyrdom; the persecuter always thinks he's punishing the martyr, but the martyr will always have the last laugh, because he knows he will get into Heaven anyway.

And gentlemen, as far as FMW the fed is concerned, this is Heaven.

I'll be quite honest. Robb was number two on my list, followed closely by you, Romeo.

I do want to follow-up on a few points you made.

You compared Robb to "an abusive, yet hard-working father", something which I believe hurts your argument. You see, the vast majority of people who had abusive fathers end up with long-term psychological damage, far beyond any of the benefits they provided. True, the Robb-ocalypse did lead us to our new home, but at what cost?

While those that were given permission were able to salvage a lot of our history, much of the actual promos were lost, some of the newer members were lost, and we also lost a good chunk of timel. The timing, also robbed us of possibly one last show with my pick for most productive member, Ben.

Ben has never left us stranded without a home. Ben has never caused us to lose bits of our history or bits of time. While I cannot disagree with you that Robb was a major influence in 2009, Ben outshines him in almost every sense.

Robb did however unify us. Beyond all shadow of a doubt FMW is a stronger more cohesive unit because of what we had to go through. We relied on each other to keep this federation going. We relied on each to build it up strong and stand our ground.

Whether we want to like him or not, we owe this to Robb.

To enforce this point I will refer you to the 1987 Canada Cup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Canada_Cup

The 1987 Canada Cup was on the most unifying moments in Canadian Hockey history. A team of the greatest superstars in Canadian Hockey was gathered to defend our national pride in the Canada Cup. A team of superstars who bickered and couldn't play as a cohesive team. They had their ups and downs in the pre-tournament and round robin. They faltered and couldn't play as a team.

In steps Coach Mike Keenan. Keenan gave the players curfews at night, cut them off from their families and ran the players ragged through practices.

What this did was give the players a unified enemy. They played together in spite of Keenan's coaching. They rallied against a common enemy and stood together, they stood strong and won the gold medal. Once against cementing themselves as the elite.

Robb unified us. Robb Clarke gave Full Metal Wrestling a common enemy. An enemy that unified FMW.

Not to mention that the point we were trying to make was not that the losses were heavy, but the impact was huge.

TBM is indeed a god amongst men, but it's just that what Robb did cannot be outscaled by anything else, not by any sort of altruism nor by any other sort of antagonism. We literally cannot be here, cannot have been a better FMW if Robb didn't do what he did.

I love Ben, I really do. As evidenced by my run with him in LPW, I consider him one of the best of all time as both a competitor and a human being. However, my problem with choosing him is pretty simple...there is little argument for Ben that could not be applied to others in FMW.


Ben had a good sense of humor? So does Clarke.


Ben helped out on staff a lot? So did Abel Steele to get the Hayabusa Cup out.


Ben consistently showed up time and time again? So have I.


Ben is a wonderful person, again one of the best, but he does not have that one shining moment that makes him stand out over all others. However, Robb added so much to the fed this year both in contributions and in pulling us together not once but twice. I am not sure how many remember our first attempt to escape Robboards but I have NEVER seen so many members of this fed working together so closely in one effort. Not even shows are as coordinated as the original Escape From Robboards. We had nearly everything moved within a day or two, it was ridiculous and that, to me, is a lasting memory of how we as a fed have been pulled together by such events and by such a man.

Since the question on the table is towards the contributions made in 2009, we have to take into account that Robb's accomplishments include nuking the boards. See, Robb did a lot of good stuff for the boards, there's no denying that, pne could say he contributed more than anyone, but the question wants to go purely on '09, so all of his failings need to be taken into account. Not to mention the main work Robb did for FMW would have been the previous two years. He faded out slightly, and made an attempt at retirement in 2009.

He nuked the boards, deleted Ro's account, picked fights with staff, tried to get Skyler thrown out, and towards the end generally trolled the boards. Whatever good he did, it must be said was weighed out by the negative additions he's made.

And to refer to Headbanger,

Quote :

Ben had a good sense of humor? So does Clarke.


Ben helped out on staff a lot? So did Abel Steele to get the Hayabusa Cup out.


Ben consistently showed up time and time again? So have I.

It's not these sole things that make Ben the best choice, it's by combining them all together to make CGS our best contributor. It's because one can take the best characteristics from other fedders, as you've done Drew, and combine them to make CGS. That is why he is the correct candidate for this title.

A noble effort PX but you're incorrect. Drew was highlighting that each notion you mentioned that truly raises Ben above is found in a vast quantity of the people on this board.

The three points raised by Drew, he highlights each of these, but did not mention himself. I highlight all of them, but did not mention myself. Austin highlights all of them but we did not mention him. Anyone who has talked to Ty knows he highlights all of them but we did not mention them.

As well thank you for supporting our argument. Yes Robb did a lot of annoying, terrible things. Things most resent him for. So I will revert you back to my statement about the 1987 Canada Cup which you have now reenforced for me. Robb gave us a common enemy. He gave us a rallying point and we took full advantage of it.

Robb strengthened FMW with his negative contributions. Thanks again for playing

PX wrote:

He nuked the boards, deleted Ro's account, picked fights with staff, tried to get Skyler thrown out, and towards the end generally trolled the boards. Whatever good he did, it must be said was weighed out by the negative additions he's made.

The thing is PX, as Clarke said before me, all those good things he did are to be added to the bad he did because the bad he did was the greatest good in hindsight, it unified us as a fed. It created a bond between all of us. We may bicker sometimes, some people in the fed may actually dislike others for some dumb reason or another, but we are a family and that familial bond was strengthened by Robb's actions towards the end of last year and that is why he made the greatest possible contribution to FMW in the last year.



Here is what I am going to do, I challenge you or anyone on your team to find ONE event that our buddy Ben instigated/was a part of in the previous year that strengthened FMW as much as Robb's destruction of the board because, honestly, I cannot think of one NOR have you or anyone on your side presented any specifics in your argument outside of the fact that TBM left to join the army and stuck around until the end, the same thing Alex O'Ares did when he left to do the same I might add before he was unfortunately hurt.

I like how the Church's argument is that Robb was so -BAD- for FMW that he was good for us. I like how that instead of trying to provide one point for their pick, they try to defame Ben. I'll answer your sarcastic question in the same way. You want an example of how Ben is a better contributor to FMW than Robb. Ben could be counted on to not cause trouble, and respected each and every person that came to this site, these forums, and this fed. He wanted every last one of us to have a good time, and never wanted to be in the spotlight at the fed's cost.

Robb Clarke on countless occasions would threaten to close the fed, it's forums, or take away various other "perks" that he provided us with, simply because he could not get his way. When the Divisions were formed both Romeo and Robb made new graphics for them. When there was a disagreement, Robb called out Romeo in public, and bashed his work and threatened to "take his ball and go home." This is but one example. The Robb-ocalypse wasn't the first time Robb had either threatened to close the site, close the forums, or actually deleted the forums. I wish I had more examples at this time, but they were honestly so numerous I have trouble keeping track.

I'll tell you honestly, until the forums were deleted, my attendance and participation here in FMW was sparse and weak at best. It was mainly because I felt that in the past year or so at fullmetalwrestling.com was a bit more drama-filled than I like. Since the reset, I've made every show, I've been participating more, and I feel morale is much higher. Not because we were "united" by Robb's acts, but because the constant threat of having all our work lost as gone. Robb was gone.

This isn't The Watchmen movie. Robb didn't perform a selfless act to try and give the "world" of FMW a common enemy to hate. I would concede if there was any proof Robb's acts were for the greater good. No, Robb was only acting in his own self interests, and he put the entire federation at risk to achieve his own goals. That is not what the "greatest contributor" to FMW in 2009 would do.

A person who purposely destroys a website and a community, or a person who dedicated himself to that same site, trying to make it as enjoyable as possible for all those that visited. I'll let you just think about which is a bigger contributor.

...I still have not seen you prove where Ben made a significant contribution to the fed besides just existing. You know, if you did that it would look less like you are simply trying to play on the emotions of him leaving, which I suspect is your ulterior reasoning here and cannot blame you at all for trying it, and more like you truly believe him to be the top contributor to the fed in the last year. Meanwhile, you once again show all the horrible things Robb has done and shown how the environment in FMW is a thousand times better without him which in turn has united us all and given many a new motivation for e-fedding here at Full Metal Wrestling. That new motivation you feel? You can totally thank Robb for it Butters Scotch because without him completely dwarfing other sources of drama, which there were some, we would still be bickering like children. But instead, we grew together in the face of a common threat.



But, once again, thanks for playing.

No one said Robb performed a selfless act. We in fact have stated on numerous occasions that FMW came together in spite of what Robb did. We rallied around someone and came together because of it. Your own admissions are a testament to this. Did Ben do something to bring you back personally? No. Robb did. Whether he wanted to or not. You said yourself your participation was at a low, and has now turned around since he departure you;ve been around and even signed back up to the fed.

In spite of everything Robb did, we rallied around him, hell you're even back due in part to it.

So your final point which is "I'll let you just think about which is a bigger contributor." The choice is clear. Ben was one amongst many who provided a joyous atmosphere. Do I think Ben stood out amongst the many, sure in some aspects, and in others no so much. Do I think Drew Michaels stood out in some aspects? Sure.

Hell Slegna is reliable for having a chat every night. EVERY NIGHT. That's a great contribution.

But what person here brought us together with a common enemy. What person here made us a family? What person here brought people like Butters back out of the wood works and into our familial arms?

What man united us through our pissed offedness towards him?

No Other Than Robb Clarke.