Frost's Criticism Corner

This is why we love Hanny!

Thanks for the 101's sir.

If you get time I'd love to see your take on match relevance in promo's. You know how I do, and I know how you do it, but I think everyone (everyone) could benefit from a nice look at a different perspective and approach.

Clarke wrote:

This is why we love Hanny!

Thanks for the 101's sir.

If you get time I'd love to see your take on match relevance in promo's. You know how I do, and I know how you do it, but I think everyone (everyone) could benefit from a nice look at a different perspective and approach.

I agree with Clarke here .... I always could work it into promos with my old style. Now,however, I am rebuilding Axel's back story for you guys and I find it hard to squeeze that in too. I am sure after a couple gos at it I will see the light.

Hey thanks a lot man, I'm always trying look for ways to keep the descriptions concise while keeping the same ideas attached, and I think that's why I'm drawn to this thread. Keep up the good work bro.

You're a funny one, Mr. Frost.

I'll take your advice and put it in the inbox. Don't take this wrong in that I cannot handle criticism. All own their own opinion and eventually it becomes fact so don't worry, I get ya.

As for your action advice.

Thank you for teaching everyone the etiquette of one dimensional action writing. Now when I see big blotches of one color in a promo, I know that they learned a simple lesson at the very least.

I don't think I understand this... one dimensional action writing you've mentioned.

Generally, when someone mentions "one dimensional", it's used in a derogatory manner. I'm getting the feeling that you can't handle criticism.

Explain, or stay out of my Corner.

BTW, if this is a misunderstanding on my part, I apologize. But, I did not get a good vibe from your message.

Not a burn per se, sir.

Everything you said is quite true and I admit I didn't really care to follow those rules when I wrote my promo. It was on purpose which is why I'm not really caring to trip about your not too stellar reception to my promo, sir.

Just differing opinions like I mentioned in my post above. Sure your opinion is popular and more likely to be taken as fact but that's how trends work. While my latest promo is in no way an example of going against the trend of the time and trying to make my own, I just prefer people know that out right.

It's good you helped with the action.

It's not good that many people will take that help to heart for FAR too long and stagnate in their careers.

More their fault than yours.

Action has a lot more potential than you gave it credit for but who can ask you to exert that kind of dedication when many will be gone before their first match? The rest will take it to heart and stagnate, for the most likely choice.

Action style should be found in your character.

You know that already though.

P.S. You kicking me out of your corner is funny. Not because I believe you can't, because I'm sure you could. Just the thought that's funny. Keep it up.

Nikko_Nulthy_Nathans wrote:

Not a burn per se, sir.

Everything you said is quite true and I admit I didn't really care to follow those rules when I wrote my promo. It was on purpose which is why I'm not really caring to trip about your not too stellar reception to my promo, sir.

Just differing opinions like I mentioned in my post above. Sure your opinion is popular and more likely to be taken as fact but that's how trends work. While my latest promo is in no way an example of going against the trend of the time and trying to make my own, I just prefer people know that out right.

It's good you helped with the action.

It's not good that many people will take that help to heart for FAR too long and stagnate in their careers.

More their fault than yours.

Action has a lot more potential than you gave it credit for but who can ask you to exert that kind of dedication when many will be gone before their first match? The rest will take it to heart and stagnate, for the most likely choice.

Action style should be found in your character.

You know that already though.

P.S. You kicking me out of your corner is funny. Not because I believe you can't, because I'm sure you could. Just the thought that's funny. Keep it up.

I'm addressing your being kicked out first. I'm not kicking you out. I want you to stay out.

There's a big difference between the debating that I'd love to go on here, and the shit that you're doing. You don't think I can read the subtext you've got going on?

Listen, the advice I'm giving is the style I've taken to heart. And I've found this style to be quite popular amongst the people WHO ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY TO WRITE. So, why wouldn't I try and make these efedders as professional as possible?

Yes, it's true that everyone has their own style. My advice won't change that. It just gives them more options, and if it makes them better writers along the way, which it will, then awesome. No matter who takes my advice to heart, it all won't come out looking the same. Their writing style WILL change my advice into something that is their own.

I'd like a match with you.

You're the only one who doesn't seem to find me... fit to give advice.

I think that'd be the most professional way to solve this.

Thanks Hanniboo,

I think it's important that people have access to the variety of styles that are out there. I'm excited for the new arc and how your writing is reflected into it.

To open this up:

Everyone should read these as ideas. Structures for a style of story telling. Frost is very good at this style of story and a lot of his advice is solid in that regard. That being said we all write our stories in different manners so some of the advice may or may not be applicable, and even if it is it may need to be tweaked.

What the people offering feedback, and Hanny by offering his thoughts on writing structure as well, are offering is an open dialogue of critiques and channels for different points of view to be presented. Whether these are taken or not is entirely up to the writers, it is their work after all. We are simply offering our idea of way you might improve.

Thank you as well, Harley.

Being the one who was personally attacked, I wasn't able to think too clearly while writing my rebuttle. But with my rebuttle and your rebuttle combined, no... there's no captain planet.

But there is a solid idea as to what this thread is all about.

Slow your roll sir.

I could write like a pro and you no show and your little fanbase here would outvote me in a second.

So I automatically don't accept your request. For reasons stated above.

I just read your match relevance section and I had to delete my previously planned post where I tried to meet you half-way in courtesy.

That piece of advice was horrendous.

The action advice was at least useful to get an idea of what to do when writing. I agreed with it.

This match relevance almost makes me cry.

I don't want to read every promo go

Symbol of why this match matters

story link of why this match matters

drama!

link?

another symbol

Inspirational speech

tie it all in

now go on AIM and look for votes from friends.

^^^^ That's part of steps.

I wasn't saying you do that.

EDIT: Shit, I forgot to address your response.

Thank you for proving that the style of writing you have TAKEN TO HEART, as you put it, is much of a trend.

All those famous writers, or proffessioned writers, won't be famous forever. Styles change sir and you helped me out in that argument.

Nikko_Nulthy_Nathans wrote:

Slow your roll sir.

I could write like a pro and you no show and your little fanbase here would outvote me in a second.

So I automatically don't accept your request. For reasons stated above.

I just read your match relevance section and I had to delete my previously planned post where I tried to meet you half-way in courtesy.

That piece of advice was horrendous.

The action advice was at least useful to get an idea of what to do when writing. I agreed with it.

This match relevance almost makes me cry.

I don't want to read every promo go

Symbol of why this match matters

story link of why this match matters

drama!

link?

another symbol

Inspirational speech

tie it all in

now go on AIM and look for votes from friends.

^^^^ That's part of steps.

I wasn't saying you do that.

...dude, relax.

If you don't want to follow the advice, you didn't have to post any response to his feedback to begin with.

His claims that I claim he is not fit to give advice is offensive.

As an American, who loves America, I believe anybody should be allowed to say what it is they wish to say. Given that it is appropriate. I could care less whether it is right or wrong.

I thought a good debate was about to ensue....but now I killed my FMW career....

My fanbase?

Sir, I just know I'd get a better promo rating than you. And no one at the top is fond enough of me to cheat in the ratings.

And about that being horrendous. Yeah, I mentioned in the first post of this thread that my specialties are Dialogue and how to tie it into action. So, while I doubt it was horrendous, I know it wasn't the best. It was just the couple of ideas I had on match relevance.

I'm trying my best to stray away from personal barbs here, but it's hard to debate writing ethics with someone who can't spell or form a complete sentence on a consistent basis.

Hannibal Frost wrote:

Thank you as well, Harley.

Being the one who was personally attacked, I wasn't able to think too clearly while writing my rebuttle. But with my rebuttle and your rebuttle combined, no... there's no captain planet.

But there is a solid idea as to what this thread is all about.

I think when you combine this with the other feedback threads it will help you in the long run most definately....I don't write like Hannibal or nathans or Clarke for that matter, I write in my own style but it doesn't mean I can't take these pointers and make them my own. I really appreciated your 101s as you guys do stuff here I never have before and it will help me rework my style. And Nathans my man Hannibal wasn't all wine and roses with my promo. Hell he told me NEVER to do stuff again, but I would never piss and moan about it. If you don't like it put it in the round file and take your ball and go home.

You didn't kill your career.

People bicker and argue here all the time.

As for the trend thing: In writing, trends change every forty or fifty years. Writing has evolved to this point and I doubt I, or anyone else in an efed, will trigger the next stage of writing evolution.

So, my advice comes from the current stage of evolution. I'll think about changing it in twenty years.

Despite the fact that in my scenario I said you could no show, anything higher than a 0.00 would be a bit ridiculous.

Personal barbs?

So personally, you are a master of spelling and the accompanying action?

I personally cannot wait for your "Spelling 101".

EDIT: Glad to see we settled down, Frost. Now I'm happy to talk like a sophisticated "typer"?

Nikko_Nulthy_Nathans wrote:

Slow your roll sir.

I could write like a pro and you no show and your little fanbase here would outvote me in a second.

So I automatically don't accept your request. For reasons stated above.

I just read your match relevance section and I had to delete my previously planned post where I tried to meet you half-way in courtesy.

That piece of advice was horrendous.

The action advice was at least useful to get an idea of what to do when writing. I agreed with it.

This match relevance almost makes me cry.

I don't want to read every promo go

Symbol of why this match matters

story link of why this match matters

drama!

link?

another symbol

Inspirational speech

tie it all in

now go on AIM and look for votes from friends.

^^^^ That's part of steps.

I wasn't saying you do that.

EDIT: Shit, I forgot to address your response.

Thank you for proving that the style of writing you have TAKEN TO HEART, as you put it, is much of a trend.

All those famous writers, or proffessioned writers, won't be famous forever. Styles change sir and you helped me out in that argument.

Vote blocking? In FMW?

Never...

Alright, I lie. Normally opening insulting on feedback you asked for is a one way ticket to NEW, since we don't have NEW anymore you'll probably not be very pleased with some of the critics of your work.

That being said as raters we are obligated to rate your promo fairly, it is our job, but voting for the most part is a popularity contest.

I don't recall mentioning the feedback he gave me except for in my first post....

Maybeeee some people should pay attention.

Oh the joys of NEW!

But wait?

Now that I openly talked/gave shit to some advice from Frost, my promos automatically drop in quality in the eyes of all who read/pretend to read?

Nikko_Nulthy_Nathans wrote:

I don't recall mentioning the feedback he gave me except for in my first post....

Maybeeee some people should pay attention.

Oh the joys of NEW!

But wait?

Now that I openly talked/gave shit to some advice from Frost, my promos automatically drop in quality in the eyes of all who read/pretend to read?

This is ridiculous now you are starting to open your criticism to EVERYONE in the fed too....Dude take a Prozac and chill

....just gonna push aside the shit-hitting-the-fan-ness by saying thanks to Hanny for taking the time to make the 101s.

Everyone should talk like a sophisticated...typer...


Also you're gonna have to do a whole lot more to ruin your FMW "career". I suggest further readings by Clarke, Robb for ideas. He was chalked full of em for ruining his time in FMW.

Regardless debate is welcome, more so if it's kept less personal (all involved), but yeah debate away. Also, if you don't agree with something someone says in a 101 or feedback, explain your counterpoint. No one is perfect here, thus no one is free from learning, or needing critiques.

Heart you all, except Seth.

Axel_Van_Osbourne wrote:

Nikko_Nulthy_Nathans wrote:

I don't recall mentioning the feedback he gave me except for in my first post....

Maybeeee some people should pay attention.

Oh the joys of NEW!

But wait?

Now that I openly talked/gave shit to some advice from Frost, my promos automatically drop in quality in the eyes of all who read/pretend to read?

This is ridiculous now you are starting to open your criticism to EVERYONE in the fed too....Dude take a Prozac and chill

You guys are kind of saying it all yourself....I'm just nudging the idea across the court.

I've always wanted to change the voting system.

Like, .5 instead of .1 for votes.

In any case, this thread is suppose to be for arguing/debating the criticism I give REGARDING the person's promo. Not writing in general.

Hence why I found it a personal attack. Triple N, you attacked me instead of the actual critique I gave.

Quite sorry for the personal attack. I understand how you took is personally and all that jazz. I just like arguing and seeing what others truly think of their little beliefs and quirks.

Honestly, maybe I should be attacking the culture at which you must educate people?

There's nothing wrong with debate. It keeps the mind sharp.

And now I see that you aren't attacking anything personally. I just don't think you can help it. Even in the simple explanation above you said...

"...truly think of their little beliefs and quirks."

Just in that explanation, you were quite demeaning.

Saying big beliefs and big quirks doesn't flow near as well.

I hope you understand what I mean.

Nikko_Nulthy_Nathans wrote:

Saying big beliefs and big quirks doesn't flow near as well.

I hope you understand what I mean.

How about beliefs and quirks....Quirks itself kinda implies littleness if that is a word.

I understand, sir. I really do.

You could've simply said beliefs and quirks. No little, big, small, or large needed.

But it's okay, I know where you're coming from.



A NOTE OF IMPORTANCE

If any higher ups visit this thread, I would like the ability or I would like someone to "pin" my 101's to the first page of the thread below the beginning post.

I don't know if that can be done on this forum, but if it can, It would be much appreciated. I wouldn't request it if people didn't want to read it. And I don't want to make it a chore for people to find the 101's.

So does all the other newbs who jumped on your bandwagon and attacked me get a slapped wrist as well?

Nahhhhhh.

Onward to spelling 101.

Pretty sure posts can't be moved. Why not edit all of your 101s into the first 101's post?