Frost's Criticism Corner

Feedback Passes

The rules on these are at the bottom of this post.

For the 10. cycle, these people have feedback passes:

Jetstream, Sean, and PX.



"At the center of good writing is a seemingly impossible obstacle to overcome. At the center of great writing? The ability to have the reader overcome that obstacle right alongside your character."



Hi, everyone.

You may or may not know me, and, at this juncture, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant.

Whether you like me, love me, hate me, or have repressed sexual feelings for me, it doesn't matter, because I'm here to help you.

This topic will hopefully stand the test of time as I:

A.) Post "101s". These will hopefully provide useful information for vets and rooks alike.

B.) Feedback promos by those who request it.

C.) Debate and, or, argue points on the above stated feedback.

My one rule for The Corner is that no one spam the thread with anything other than questions or requests for 101's.

I do believe my strength is Dialogue(and the action that immediately surrounds them) so please keep that in mind if you need help.

I love you all(heterosexually) and will not hesitate to help.

THE FEEDBACK PASS:

Should anyone this go around, or at the start of any cycle, ask me for feedback and I can't deliver, you will be given a feedback pass. A feedback pass is good for one promo in any cycle and is only given during the .1 of a cycle. Passes will not rollover and cannot be accumulated. I will try my best to feedback every show, but if i cant, save the feedback pass you might have for that one promo you really want evaluated. PPV's do count.



***I will be delivering a promo at 10.2 should anyone want to have my credentials validated!

Can I have feedback Hanny?

I would also like some feedback from the great Frost.

10.1 Promo Feedback for Romeo

Obviously not a traditional promo, but it worked... in superb fashion.

I'll be serious when I say that your promo was the only one i read this go around that kept me glued to my seat for the whole thing. The other's... took me a few minutes to get pulled in. Yours, however, intrigued me from the get go.

I'll be honest this paragraph, it wasn't because you promo was great. The style is what got me hooked, but once I was, I found myself quite entertained. I didn't pick up on a story, or plot, for this. Pardon me if I missed it.

I couldn't really identify with the character, though. I hate smarks. But, that does show your value as a writer. I found myself enjoying the parts in between the news topics even though they involved the smarky fellow and his smarky forum friends. You did good in making me care about this smark's struggle to love the dastardly Romeo even when everyone is against him.

So, obviously, with that approach being taken, your promo broke kayfabe. Not much need for it in an efed, BUT, to do it in a promo is a whole different story. You pulled it off well, though. I imagined James Earl Jones doing the narrative while my mind viewed the faithful smark from the computer screen. Not sure if you meant to, but the style of the narrative created an awesome visual in my head that completely added to the reading experience.


I could not find anything wrong with the promo. I do, however, enjoy storyline, plot based promos more. Although, it is nice to get a breather every now and then. And I'd have to say your promo successfully drew me away from a burnout this time around. There were some long promos to go through.

I hope that's what you were looking for. I only give criticism where its needed.

Hannibal, I'm always willing to hear your two cents on my promos.

10.1 Promo Feedback for Seth Omega

Alrighty, so... you've become an animal... who cares?

I'm not being an asshole, even though it may sound like it, but that's what I got from the promo. And that's going to be my main focal point here. To me, it seemed like that was the turning point of the promo and of Seth Omega. Unfortunately, its steam was ripped from the promo by Annalisa's car wreck.

I loved Dante's speech to Seth and his subsequent destruction of Hammond. But, it didn't hit me like it should have. I should've been excited, or terrified, or at least intrigued of this change.

I previously stated in my dialogue 101 that less is more, and actions speak louder than words, but it only works when the action carries weight. Dante's speech should not have been enough to transform Omega into an animal. Omega needed more of a breaking point. With this promo, you've got all these good feelings and then boom, Omega gets a pep talk from Dante to put him over the edge. I understand that Seth missed out on the Television title, but... is that really enough to turn someone into an animal? Piss someone off, yes, but animal... no.

Annalisa's car wreck? Now that, my friend, is a breaking point. And a fine one at that. Why God, WHY? You took my chance to be television champion away from me and now you want to take Annalisa too? What have I done to deserve this? Or is this a sign? Telling me that I must be stronger for the path that will be layed before me? Or is this bullshit? Is life shitting on me because I was the unlucky draw? Some random sequence of events that always has me eating shit? Well, fuck that, I will eat shit NO LONGER!!

Bam, there's your breaking point. Obviously not in those exact words, but you get the idea. It's been laid out that, like the rest of humanity, Seth can feel emotion. He does in fact have feelings. Use those so we can get inside of his head. We, the reader, have much more of a reason to be inside Seth's head than you, the writer, does. You are trying to win us over. Give us reason to believe in Seth's struggle.

Other than that, the promo was written solidly. The only other qualm was that it didnt seem to have an A to B plotline. This is crucial, unless you are novelist good. A promo cannot go A to D to 9 to B. We've got Seth's surprise, the flashback, the animal-ness, and Annalisa's car wreck. You'd need at least thirty pages to weave all that into a gut wrenching, tear jerking, awe inspiring story.

If there was a lot of lead in in moments for this promo in your other promos, I apologize, I haven't been back too long. If any of that is the case, try writing in some exposition. If Seth remembers something or something happens that resembles a past promo, let us know, we may have forgotten.

Other than these, your promo was fine. Lol. No, seriously. It was. All I'm missing is that X factor that makes me feel for Seth. Annalisa's car wreck could have done it this time, but only at an earlier place in the promo.

Find that X factor and you will wow the shit out of everyone. That, I promise you.

Thanks Hanny, actually the promos before basically had Omega killing Mr. Ickelburgh, then Asai dying and he left me the gym, Omega killing a stalker of Annalisa's, and it motivated him...then Dante was my mystery guy at Death Row who in a TT session got in my head and made me go bat shit crazy, but I understand your point. Thanks again Hanny.

Hey Hanny, I would love your thoughts on my promo if you could.

If so, thanks in advance.

A Note of Importance to all who come here!!

I would like the feedbax too.

Well, I won't demand it, and I certainly won't stop my feedback if I receive none in return, but it would be very nice. Especially my 10.2 promo as that will be my first time actually writing since my hiatus.

and now...

10.1 Promo Feedback for Gabriel Crow... kind of.

As I've told you, I think you've improved by leaps and bounds since I last saw you. There was really nothing glaringly wrong with this promo and i thought the story was extremely solid.

I've got nothing for you at this time as, I do believe, the rest of your writing skills will come with experience and being comfortable with your character.

You've got excellent description, action, and dialogue. Well, the dialogue could use work. Dialogue needs to be a bit more varied between characters. This is needed to give each a life of his or her own. And don't be afraid to try different ways of delivering dialogue through action and the spoken word. A combination of both would cut down on the blocks of text coming from a character and really increase the visual look of the promo. But I only saw that a couple of times.

Except for that, you are doing very well. I am truly proud to have seen you grow into such a fine young man.


10.1 Promo Feedback for Alistair Wolfe

Welp, you've managed to steal my style. HA, kidding. But, it does resemble what I write and what I occasionally read(vampire books for adults. None of that fag ass Twilight shit).

So, you've quite easily won me over on the story. I like the story, but... one thing doesn't work. It twas the reason I never had Hannibal Frost become vampirized. I love it when vampires are fucking Dragonball Z strong. Because I love DBZ, and anyone who has anything negative to say about it can die in a fire. We all have our different motivations.

But, how would that work in FMW in a storyline sense? Okay, he could downplay his power so no one notices he's a real vampire. Then what happens when you lose? You accidently gave your opponent too much wiggle room? That's a good excuse, plotwise, for one loss. But what if it kept happening? It's just an awkward situation to have an all powerful character that goes up against normal human beings when you dont have the ability to make sure he always wins.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but realistically, Wolfe would kill the shit out of everyone he steps into a ring with. Frost was possessed by a demon, but he was still limited to human standards. That was my nifty trick. I'd be much more willing to fall into your story if i knew, once it was over, there'd be a legit reason as to why you might lose on the show.

As to why you might lose...

Only three things come to mind.

We've got length, we've got description, and we've got connecting to the readers.

A.) Length: Some people like a shorter promo, but this was a tad too short. Beef it up a bit with whatever floats your boat.

B.) Description: Your descriptions need to lengthen. The readers dont need the blue prints for every little piece of scenery, but we'd at least like to be able to visualize without having to use most of our imagination. The point of writing is to bring us into your world. Describe that world to us just a little more and you'll be fine. It'll also add length. Yay for a solution to point A!

C.) This is where I have an idea to solve two problems. What if Wolfe lost his vampire power? He would still have to feed and stay out of the sunlight, supposing sunlight is harmful in your world, but he wouldn't have super human strength or speed. Now you're connecting to the readers. They can relate to this underdog without being thrown off by the fact that his super human powers seemingly disappear on an FMW show. Wolfe is now on the lowest rung of the ladder. I'm all for super powered fights, but in a day and age where vamps are getting overdone, a little originality needs to come in to play. Wolfe, being almost human, would give him a likeable underdog quality in your promos and in FMW. It'd create a problem that needs to be overcome, an obstacle, and at the center of good writing is seemingly impossible obstacles to overcome.


Anyway, that's just an idea, but one i really think you should take in to account. I love your story, I do, but I'd like to see it fit in with FMW just a little. It's a challenge that can only make you a better writer.

Well for some reason I thought it was Dalby who wrote the active dialogue 101 on the old site but maybe it was you? I wish I had a copy of that, it was awesomeness.

Regardless I would love feedback, it is my drug.

some feed back would be much appreciated, good sir.

If you have a spare few moments I would love it if you could give me some feedback also. Thanks.

I would like some feedback on mine if you have a bit of time....I am changing up the style the next match I have and I wondered what you thought of this one.

Frost, I would appreciate some feedback.

Feeback pl0x?

Frost, you've opened a hellgate with open feedback for everyone like this they're all flooding in now. Including me If you have the time, your take on evil PX would be nice.

Thanks for doing this again Hanny. Always good to have a refresher that we can turn to.

A Note of Importance!

With this recent, influx of requests, I shall try my best to get to them in due time. If I don't get to you, the first post in this thread will be edited to give you a Feedback Pass. Check the first post for rules regarding the Feedback Pass as I will be editing it shortly.



10.1 Promo Feedback for Abel Steele

Well jesus, that was long. Lol.

But, it just goes to show that your good, as I finished the whole thing in one read. You could be a lot better, as I see that potential, but for right now, good.

So, as far as this goes, I pretty much have been absent for a lot of character development. Pardon me if I comment on something or criticize something that doesn't deserve it.

My favorite parts of the promo were of course Steele's sharp tongue towards the police officer and Emma's death. I say Emma's death is one of my favorite parts because it pissed me off, and good writing should do this. For me, I was just getting used to the idea of Steele and Emma becoming closer, because I truly liked her character, and then she's taken away from me.

C.R.Y.P.T does intrigue me, but it doesn't hit me like it should. This could be because you've had Emma becoming more and more involved with these people in past promos and I haven't read them. I wasn't like "So thats who those bastards are!" and I almost found myself not caring, until they killed Emma. That really sparked my attention.

Unfortunately, the good praise ends there.

You have a lot of grammatical errors to work on, young man. Mostly with run on sentences. Next promo you write, I want you to evaluate your character' speech and even your description. I want you to ask yourself "How could I tell the audience this with as few words as possible?"

That would really solve the main problem I'm seeing. The story did flow smoothly even with me missing some of the backstory in previous promos, so no qualms there. Your story telling is really up to par. You just need to work on the actual writing aspect of it. Less is more and you'd improve ten fold if you adhered to that principle.

I'm not saying to skip out on your description, though. You really set the scene well. Just, try it with fewer words and try not to be redundant. If you fix this, the actual process of reading would get smoother and thus make it more enjoyable.

oh why not...I guess I'll cave, since you seem to be putting a lot of work into your feedback.

I'd love to know what you think of my promo.

Hi Hanny, i dont really want to ask for feedback but for a 101 in how to set up descriptions and action between dialogue as i think that is the weakest parts of my writing.

Can I hit you up for a feedback?

This post is Two'fer!!


10.1 Promo Feedback for Damien Inferno

Alrighty, you know, I'm giving you an obligatory feedback for 10.2, because I really don't know what's going on. Maybe this is something you need to work on, but I think it's because I've been missing and haven't been reading prior promos.

So, I'm going to give a few bits of advice on things besides story, as I feel I needed to read past promos in order to be fully tuned into this one.

Match relevance: No one is going to toss your name out if there is no match relevance. So don't just throw it in there. It was blatantly obvious that this was just tacked on as it's almost the only scene with it. If you can't find an intriguing way of putting it in there, don't. It detracts from the story.

Writing: Actually, your writing is solid at this stage in your 'career'. I just wanted to tell you that writing skill doesn't come from feedback. Little things you could fix, or something you missed, yes, but skill comes from reading other people's work and taking in what you like about it. It also comes from experience. I've been writing short stories and actually trying my hand at the craft for ten years. The ability to develop your writing style comes with time, and while I think it does need developing, no one can do that, but you.

So, Sorry for it being so short. Give me a good, solid outting at 10.2 and I'll feedbax that to a great degree.



10.1 Promo Feedback for Christian Moore

Ouch, not much I can do with Trash talking styled promos.

Yes, back in the day, this was the main style of promo. And yes, I've been in the efed business long enough to have written many promos in this style. I'm not old, I just didn't have many friends in my preteens.

So, all I can say is... learn how to tell a story. More and more efeds are adopting this style nowadays. In FMW, the vast majority goes for story telling. And even in other old school efeds, I'm seeing half the writing population switch over to story telling. If there was a way to do trash talking promos and succeed in FMW, I'd try my hardest to help you perfect that craft. But, there isn't.

As far as your writing goes, I do believe you could construct a decent story if you tried. There's obviously not much to go one with so few action paragraphs, but the evidence is still there in small doses. Give it a try at 10.2 and i will feedback the shit out of you.

I can double post in my own thread, damn it.

I still owe feedback to the following people:

AVO

JetStream

Sean

PX

Toasterr(I dont remember how to spell your character's name at this time. Sorry!)

Triple N



UP NEXT::::

The Relationship Between Dialogue and its Surrounding Action: A 101.

Because Marky requested it and this can benefit you ALL.

If you'd like to give me some feedback, well, I'd just be the happiest little guy.

I mark for the corner! I want to be a Corner Boy for you...

Why thank you, Sy-Sy.

A Tip For Calvin X. Carter

I will certainly get around to feedbaxing you in depth, but probably on another show.

As for right now, I liked the story, and your writing has improved a lot. Everything was smooth. Even the way the promo was set up.

Here's some advice:

This stubbly wicked smile sat only inches above a thick meaty gash almost completely around the neck of the victim, now grey and free of any blood cells, having gushed it all the night before. To the side of the man’s head sat a bloody handkerchief.

That's yours and a lot of that isn't needed.

That wicked smile sat above a thick gash stretching from one side of the victim's neck to the other. The skin, gray and cold from blood loss, sat in contrast to the bloody handkerchief next to it.

A dozen words have now been removed and the direct message is still intact. It even flows better now. Always look over your promos and see where this can be done.

This would greatly improve a lot of the descriptive action and thus improve the whole promo.

10.1 Promo Feedback for Kaoru

You know what? I really liked your stuff, man.

It was short, to the point, and executed perfectly. It took me a second to get used to it, though With you never mentioning Kaoru in any tense during the description, but other than that, fine.

I'd say the description needs to be tightened up a bit and I personally don't see the point for the colon AND the apostrophes during dialogue. But those are just personal qualms of mine.

I really wish I could go in depth, but I really saw nothing wrong with it that would need a giant explanation. As for the story, it was a really solid outing and everything a debut promo should be. I'm guessing its a debut, it looked like it. And I've been MIA for a while.

I'm actually excited to see where this story goes. I love Japanese culture and brutality, so it was really right up my alley.

I'll need to see how well you handle this a couple shows in, but as for right now, good job.

Two'fer!

10.1 Promo Feedback For AVO

Alrighty... I'm running out of free time here... sorry.

So, I'm going to get to your biggest problem: run on sentences.

AVO: Seriously though thanks for everything here are two ringside seats I hope to see you there.

That is yours. I see three sentences in there.

Let's try it like this...

AVO: Seriously though, thanks for everything.

AVO reaches into his jacket pocket.

AVO: Here's two ringside seats. I hope to see you there.


Bam, you've just gained a bit more promo length and the whole things flows logically.

The only other thing I've got for you is the bartender trainer thing. Needed a lot more fleshing out. I don't want anymore relationships built like this in the future. I want reasons as to why this needs to happen to move the story along. I want a bit of struggle. Then I want to be rewarded with the fact that the bartender really is a great trainer.


10.1 Feedback For Triple N

Okay, I really wanted to check yours out seeing as how I heard Clarke say "Very hannibal-esque" or something akin to that. But, sadly to say I was disappointed.

The beginning was intriguing, but then... all of that disappeared. You might be waiting to reveal this operation later on down the road, but just taking it away from me made me feel jipped. I wanted to know, and was deprived of the information without a good reason. If you'd given me a good reason, I'd have been okay with waiting.

The writing itself needs some work. Flesh out the description a bit more(Definitely check out my 101 just a few posts above). Other than that, a tad more length would help.

You've got an interesting story so far and if you work at it, I do believe I'll enjoy reading about Triple N. This go around left me feeling unsatisfied and not in the "i want more" kinda way. Flesh out the story, all of your main characters, and give me somebody to root for.

You've got an original story, and I like that. Just flesh it out.

Listen Hanny I don't really know you (yet...are you on AIM???)but I would like to say that I really appreciate the effort you put into your feedback and especially these 101's.

This is just really good stuff to see and already I have some ideas of how I can improve my next promo just by looking back at 10.1 and holding it up to your 101.

So again thanks for spending your time on this, it is appreciated

I agree with Abel...Because of the 101s and your feedback (as well as everyone else's) I think my 10.2 promo will be alot better. I can tell you guys take pride in what you do here. It definately shows.