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The Celt

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:22 am

@Dano

I ain't mad, just droppin' knowledge son

Also, welcome back
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:49 am

Celt dropping knowledge <=== oxymoron

<3
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Dano



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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:07 am

Not back but thinking about it. Have some ideas.

OH HI TBM! ME LOVE YOU!
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:50 am

I DID, I DID, I DID SEE A SYANIDE!!!

...Welcome back to whichever degree you are.

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:03 pm

I couldn't think of an appropriately happy response to Dano being back so I'll just say this.

If you leave again, we're sending Celt to live with you.

Think about it, and be afraid.

Welcome back Dano.
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The Celt

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:05 pm

Alex O'Rion wrote:
I couldn't think of an appropriately happy response to Dano being back so I'll just say this.

If you leave again, we're sending Celt to live with you.

Think about it, and be afraid.

Welcome back Dano.

I'LL FUCKING DO IT MAN, I'M CRAZY, I'M LOCO HOMES, I'M A VATO ON THE EDGE! ALL O'RION HAS TO DO IS PUSH ME AND I'M THERE CABRON!
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:55 pm

Welcome back Syanide!
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Dano



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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:28 am

Plan a bit of a rant later about the state of FMW. Been reading a lot of stuff and it's got me thinking.
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The Celt

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:53 pm

Syanide wrote:
Plan a bit of a rant later about the state of FMW. Been reading a lot of stuff and it's got me thinking.

So we've been warned?
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Dano



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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:38 pm

The Celt wrote:
Syanide wrote:
Plan a bit of a rant later about the state of FMW. Been reading a lot of stuff and it's got me thinking.

So we've been warned?

Rant is a bad word, just wanted to get some things off my chest after reading some of the debate. Have some opinions.

Was a bit angry this morning so probably won't bother now as I'm in a good mood now.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:53 pm

I'd actually be interested in what you've got to say since you've be out for a bit you'll have an out of the box view but with an insider's knowledge.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:29 pm

Agreed.

You're a smart man, Dano, I'd love to hear whatever it is you have to say.

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That said, not only was this a pretty solid show, but Dalby Sound was written to an effing T. Well done to all the writers, who to be honest wrote Dalby better than I used to. lol

Kudos gentlefolk. Kudos.[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:11 am

As long as I'm talked about in a positive light, I don't mind either.

My feelings get hurt easy...

Sad
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:52 pm

RANT

Let me start out by saying that I love Full Metal Wrestling and have really enjoyed being a part of its history. I understand things are a bit tough at the moment as regards to activity and such but hope fully things will improve in the not too distant future.

I’m no expert on these things, I’ve never gotten involved in the backstage sniping and to a large degree I’ve managed to stay neutral through scandal after scandal. I understand that running a fed like this is hard work and I respect the hell out of people like Ro, Leon, Jaro, Robb, Skittles, TBM, RCA, Drew, Alex etc you’ve put so much time and energy into it. I’m just going to be honest here, want to get some stuff off my chest because I want to come back and do another run in FMW which I’ll be happier doing knowing I’ve said my piece.

-I have felt for a long time that FMW slipped away from the core values that made it great. I hated having THREE shows, I’m glad that there’s only two again and as a result the roster looks a lot less thin. In my opinion FMW was at its best when there was Anarchy and Alchemy. Two distinct brands, that’s the foundation of FMW, that’s where it got its identity and that’s where it’s at its strongest. The legacy of FMW is Anarchy and Alchemy, the Red and the Blue forming the Purple of FMW. I’ve nothing against Ammunition and Corruption but they don’t have the history of the original brands. There’s strength in that history. People are two quick to want to revamp shit, I think they shoud have been left the same.

-Accessibility; it’s daunting for rookies who turn up and seen HUGE promos clogging up the V&P thread. When I started promos where shorter, more to the point and all the more enjoyable for it. I hate reading long promos, it sucks, more often than not it’s a good solid idea stretched out until it’s so long that any quality it had has been watered down completely. I don’t know when LENGTH started to equal QUALITY. I’ve heard of great promos being marked down for not being SHORT and average promos being marked up because “It Must Be Good If He Wrote That Much”. I’ve read long promos that I’ve loved but usually I left feeling that it’d be so much better if it has been TIGHTER and PACED BETTER. If you’ve a good, well fleshed out character and tell a well thought out, well put together story, the rewards are great. STORY SHOULD DICTATE LENGTH NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. My favourite promo writers never got caught in length and just wrote what was needed to tell the story, people like Jaro, TBM, RaTo, Scorpio, Derrik, Dalby.

-Promo Scores have rankled me for ages, what’s the point of having them out of 10 if nobody ever drops below 6.5.

-Generally snarkiness and negativity of, not just FMW but, the internet as a whole really grinds my gears.

I don’t think anything really important has been said here but hopefully it might start us talking about how to improve this place, not even sure if I’ve said what I wanted to say but I’ posting it because I think it’ll clear my head so that some time soon I can get back to posting promos.

And if one person reads this and looks at their writing in a different way it'll be worth it.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:07 am

Omega wrote:
Dear Ammunition Roster...

If you're on the Ammunition Roster I need you to PM me your current roster info.

Let me repeat that in case you weren't paying attention.

PM ME YOUR ROSTER INFO, DON'T POST IN THE ROSTER UPDATE THREAD, DON'T TELL ME TO GET IT MYSELF, PM ME YOUR ROSTER INFO!!!

The reason for this is a couple of reasons, 1) I don't wanna hear "you got the wrong roster info for me", 2) I'm fucking lazy, 3) Slegna is very bad at helping with things :3

That being said if it isn't PM'ed to me you won't be put on the roster.

Period.

Check your PM's, bro.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:48 am

Syanide wrote:
RANT
I’m no expert on these things, I’ve never gotten involved in the backstage sniping and to a large degree I’ve managed to stay neutral through scandal after scandal. I understand that running a fed like this is hard work and I respect the hell out of people like Ro, Leon, Jaro, Robb, Skittles, TBM, RCA, Drew, Alex etc you’ve put so much time and energy into it. I’m just going to be honest here, want to get some stuff off my chest because I want to come back and do another run in FMW which I’ll be happier doing knowing I’ve said my piece.

You are the kindest most cuddly racist I've ever had the pleasure of knowing sir.

Syanide wrote:
-I have felt for a long time that FMW slipped away from the core values that made it great. I hated having THREE shows, I’m glad that there’s only two again and as a result the roster looks a lot less thin. In my opinion FMW was at its best when there was Anarchy and Alchemy. Two distinct brands, that’s the foundation of FMW, that’s where it got its identity and that’s where it’s at its strongest. The legacy of FMW is Anarchy and Alchemy, the Red and the Blue forming the Purple of FMW. I’ve nothing against Ammunition and Corruption but they don’t have the history of the original brands. There’s strength in that history. People are two quick to want to revamp shit, I think they shoud have been left the same.

This, a thousand times over this. I said it when the divisions happened and I still agree with it to this day. Alchemy and Anarchy were the heart of FMW, and since they went away the fed has been poorer for it.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:22 am

The only thing I will say about the brand names is this:

It wasn't my idea.

But from an administrative point of view, every now and then the idea of a third brand will be feasible. There's really no going around that.

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[quote="DalbySound"]So I got this e-mail telling me results are up, and I laughed at first, with a joke in my head about how long results take around here. Then I clicked on Ammunition, and was horrified to see I'd become a commentator, if only because old schoolers know how much I hate when other people write my character.

That said, not only was this a pretty solid show, but Dalby Sound was written to an effing T. Well done to all the writers, who to be honest wrote Dalby better than I used to. lol

Kudos gentlefolk. Kudos.[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:41 am

Syanide wrote:
RANT

Let me start out by saying that I love Full Metal Wrestling and have really enjoyed being a part of its history. I understand things are a bit tough at the moment as regards to activity and such but hope fully things will improve in the not too distant future.

To be honest since the debate started there has been a huge increase in new faces in FMW. We are really building up a strong class of 2011. We just need to make sure we stick with them and offer some advice and help every once in awhile.

Syanide wrote:
I’m no expert on these things, I’ve never gotten involved in the backstage sniping and to a large degree I’ve managed to stay neutral through scandal after scandal. I understand that running a fed like this is hard work and I respect the hell out of people like Ro, Leon, Jaro, Robb, Skittles, TBM, RCA, Drew, Alex etc you’ve put so much time and energy into it. I’m just going to be honest here, want to get some stuff off my chest because I want to come back and do another run in FMW which I’ll be happier doing knowing I’ve said my piece.

It can be hard, but ask myself and probably anyone else on that list and we’ll say roughly the same thing. When you love something and you constantly enjoy it, it becomes a priority and you then start seeing yourself giving to it generously. We all love FMW, so to be able to put in a few more posts here and there or help keep this place going, it isn’t a task, it’s simply enjoyment.

That’s why I respect the past-top guys so so much. To love this place so much but then to have to give it up, it would be hard. But that’s probably why we always have a lot of returning vets. And in saying that, it’s great to have you back Sy!

Syanide wrote:
-I have felt for a long time that FMW slipped away from the core values that made it great. I hated having THREE shows, I’m glad that there’s only two again and as a result the roster looks a lot less thin. In my opinion FMW was at its best when there was Anarchy and Alchemy. Two distinct brands, that’s the foundation of FMW, that’s where it got its identity and that’s where it’s at its strongest. The legacy of FMW is Anarchy and Alchemy, the Red and the Blue forming the Purple of FMW. I’ve nothing against Ammunition and Corruption but they don’t have the history of the original brands. There’s strength in that history. People are two quick to want to revamp shit, I think they shoud have been left the same.

I might be against the mob on this but to some extent I really liked the 3 brand split. Firstly having Ignition was a bad idea, 3 is good, 4 is bad. But anyway, we were really in a stage of having a lot of new guys coming through but with a high level of ME’er they rarely got a chance to really step up. So the split in my opinion helped. It allowed a lot more writers to be given big opportunities and it allowed for a good cycle of rising stars. However we did eventually hit the point of reduced numbers and familiar faces cycling through again and again, so by all means the return to two brands was due. And in terms of the revamping/constant need to change things up… my favourite part of FMW booking is seeing a feud between characters last more than 1-2 shows, I really am a sucker for it. (Also we must talk Sy about the things we talked about before you left.)

Syanide wrote:
-Accessibility; it’s daunting for rookies who turn up and seen HUGE promos clogging up the V&P thread. When I started promos where shorter, more to the point and all the more enjoyable for it. I hate reading long promos, it sucks, more often than not it’s a good solid idea stretched out until it’s so long that any quality it had has been watered down completely. I don’t know when LENGTH started to equal QUALITY. I’ve heard of great promos being marked down for not being SHORT and average promos being marked up because “It Must Be Good If He Wrote That Much”. I’ve read long promos that I’ve loved but usually I left feeling that it’d be so much better if it has been TIGHTER and PACED BETTER. If you’ve a good, well fleshed out character and tell a well thought out, well put together story, the rewards are great. STORY SHOULD DICTATE LENGTH NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. My favourite promo writers never got caught in length and just wrote what was needed to tell the story, people like Jaro, TBM, RaTo, Scorpio, Derrik, Dalby.

I find this is really a sensitive subject, on one side if you say make it longer to some people it might push them to far and the leave. Otherside is if you tell people to shorten it, they may feel like they can’t express their work and leave. Now for as long as I’ve been here FMW has accepted both lengths of writing, however the shear length of a promo shouldn’t play a part in rating/voting. Sure I see promo’s that are too short and don’t give out enough enjoyment/excitement/eye candy to draw the reader to want to read it again or remember it, opposite to that is when its just repetition and you’ve had enough when you’ve finished it. So what is the standard of FMW? Well it’s to keep the same quality throughout the promo. If you can keep a 18 page promo to the same quality that you could in a 8 page promo then do it I say! But quality is the issue, and although we can complain about length, you throw a promo infront of me or any of the raters and we’ll show you it isn’t the shear length of it, but the weaknesses commonly seen.

Syanide wrote:
-Promo Scores have rankled me for ages, what’s the point of having them out of 10 if nobody ever drops below 6.5.

Well other than making the 9+ club now the 4.5+ club it doesn’t really change a lot. And to what range do we set. If I got a letter I wrote in year 6 and posted that, it would hopefully get at max a 1. So is it possible that all our writers are at least a 6.5?

Syanide wrote:
-Generally snarkiness and negativity of, not just FMW but, the internet as a whole really grinds my gears.

As long as things over the internet are taken with a pinch of salt and are said for enjoyment, then go nuts. No need to get personal or aggressive.

Syanide wrote:
I don’t think anything really important has been said here but hopefully it might start us talking about how to improve this place, not even sure if I’ve said what I wanted to say but I’ posting it because I think it’ll clear my head so that some time soon I can get back to posting promos.

And if one person reads this and looks at their writing in a different way it'll be worth it.

Lastly, you have some really good points Sy, makes me think that you should have arrived a few months earlier for the debates. But it is good to bring these things up, make the forum ask why? Rather than just swallow it and continue with it.

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:11 am

I've always liked being a mascot for writing short promoes, because it's what I believe in, and I never (bar one occasion) got sucked into long promoes. Over the last cycle my promoes average 2,000 words I think at most, which is about 5 pages in Word, and thankfully I can score at a good level with that. Hell I scored 8.5 against Derrick and beat him with that, so that should really show some people at least that length is not a major factor for being successful here.

If I ever felt obliged to write gargantuan epics every show to do well here, I wouldn't be here because I know I wouldn't enjoy that, I'd never promo if it felt like work. I'm only on a little break now from burnout and the finishing of a character combined.

And of Course, Anarchy and Alchemy for life. Nothing beats the classics

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:06 am

Obviously, I'll chime in on the promo length thingy.

My FMC promo was round about thirty pages long. I had to cut it into two posts. I got criticized by many for it being this long, but the one that got to me the most was Bryson. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that I wrote to fill up that amount of space. Or, at least, it felt that way to him.

Not the case.

Every single plot point in my promo NEEDED to be there, in order to tell the complete story. I've since gone back and looked things over, and still, I wouldn't be able to take anything out. All the action paragraphs, inner monologuing, and dialogue needed to be there.

Ever wonder that maybe there is a middle ground between quality and quantity? Like say... I wouldn't have been able to cut the quantity of my FMC promo without cutting the quality. Five pages less and the story wouldn't have been complete. Ten or fifteen pages less? The entire thing would've been a fucking disaster, no matter how many big and pretty words I used.

I guess I could write on a shittier scale? Like Frost walked into the room. Ghosts and googily monsters yelled at him. He got angry. He shot everything. "Insert witty, sarcastic remark"

I mean, I guess it would be different if I wrote my promos and then completely disappeared until the shows went up. But I don't. I try and remain active in the TT threads, even while writing my promo. Then, I usually end up doing some kind of staff related thing. Like... writing two matches for a show. Writing a segment for a show. Or just writing the lil ole main event or whatever. I even rate promos for christ sake.

So, it's just a little unfair that I get dogged out for length when I do my fucking damnedest to make sure the quality stays top notch all the way through.

Like Leon said: if anything is ever done to limit promo length, I've gotta' go or risk shitting the bed every show. Or, at least, every PPV. If my writing was dogshit, I could understand. But, I'd like to think, it most certainly is not.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:13 am

I wouldn't be in favour of limiting promo length at all. It was actually Hannibal I was thinking when I wrote story should dictate length because that's what Hannibal does. I spent a lot of time reading his promos and they're not puffed out promos which could have done with being shorter, they're the length the story requires them to be. The problem with that is that you have to be a very talented written to keep somebody engaged through a long promo. Luckily Hanny is a talent.

I just wish people looked at their work and thought "Does it need to be this long?", "Is everything in there for a reason". I think promos would be better as a result. As I said though I'm no expert I consider myself a Second Tier Writer in FMW standards below being like Jaro, Hanny, Harley, Drew, Bone-Bone, Doc, Skyler etc.

As for the Anarchy and Alchemy thing, I'd love to see FMW go back to it's roots at some stage. I miss the Red and the Blue.

At some stage I'll have to talk to someone and talk about going back. I've an rough idea for a promo and would mind coming back for one show and seeing how I go from there.

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:27 am

Well, we'd welcome ya' back, Dano.

Hasn't been the same since you and Harley left.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:46 am

I'd love the give the monster one last run out and then finish off his story.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:41 am

Hannibal Frost wrote:
Obviously, I'll chime in on the promo length thingy.

My FMC promo was round about thirty pages long. I had to cut it into two posts. I got criticized by many for it being this long, but the one that got to me the most was Bryson. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that I wrote to fill up that amount of space. Or, at least, it felt that way to him.

So, it's just a little unfair that I get dogged out for length when I do my fucking damnedest to make sure the quality stays top notch all the way through.


Firstly, as mentioned, it was one opinion, mine. I didnt comment on any of your other things, I just left feedback on your promo and really only part of the feedback was length and to be honest I wasn't the only one who said it, just the only one who said it to your face apparently.

Secondly, you're preaching to the choir about that kind of stuff as we have people who do TT, Staff, and promo here consistently as well, including myself, and its fairly insulting to insinuate that I wouldn't appreciate that, let alone know what its like to try and accomplish.

I'm not trying to turn this into a mudslinging fest betweenst you and I, and I get that you're not trying to be mean specifically, but please keep in mind as to whom you're referring to.


Also, a world with Syanide is a happier world. Good to see you back Dano the Mano. <3

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:43 am

I wouldn't criticise the length of your FMC match promo, Frost, because honestly I thought the thing was solid gold when I read it, I was enthralled by it and voted for it thusly, and I love TyranT.

The point is things being unnecessarily long and filling up space for nothing, as opposed to something dragging on for the sake of it

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:21 pm

Porygon-X wrote:
The point is things being unnecessarily long and filling up space for nothing, as opposed to something dragging on for the sake of it

Nail Head Hit On
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:55 pm

So this rant is nice and everything, but I have one roster info.

In other words if you cunts don't get the shit in I'm gonna break my foot off in all of your asses.

K?

K.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:02 pm

Or maybe you could stop being lazy and check the proper thread for roster info.

K?

K.

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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:29 pm

The last time I did that all I heard was a bunch of bitching, so now to cut down on the bitching I've decided to just have the shit PM'ed to me to save time and effort.

And anyone who doesn't comply simply won't be put on the roster.

We've went too long without the roster, and to be frank digging through Kelson's work is like ripping out your eyes with a sharp garden tool.
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PostSubject: Re: FMW OOC Thread   Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:55 pm

Jeff wrote:
Or maybe you could stop being lazy and check the proper thread for roster info.

K?

K.

Actually we really need a new thread. There are some people who have no information at all on the forums and its super hard to do.


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